SPEAKER_02 0:00

From idea to actually starting takes so much and that energy I can avoid really well. I can clean another room. So yeah, so that's a part of it too.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Welcome to What Are You Making Space For? I'm Star Hansen, certified professional organizer, trauma-informed coach, and clutter whisperer. For more than 20 years, I've seen firsthand that getting organized is almost never about the stuff. Clutter's just the start. Every space tells a story. And behind every pile of clutter, you'll find life transitions, grief, trauma, perfectionism, relationships, dreams we've got grown, and sometimes the dreams we're just beginning to imagine. On this podcast, we'll step inside real organizing sessions to explore what our belongings are trying to tell us, why we get stuck, and what we're ready to make space for next. These episodes come directly from virtual organizing sessions with people who have generously invited us into their organizing journey by agreeing to share their stories on this podcast. Whether you're hoping to clear a closet, understand yourself a little bit better, or simply feel less alone, I'm glad you're here. Let's find out what we're making space for today. Today we're in Shelby's garage facing her mountain of clutter, which feels pretty fitting considering that she's an avid camper who loves getting out into nature. But this particular mountain has been a little harder to climb. Shelby's garage is full of things that she's thrifted, inherited, things she hopes to use one day, and projects she's been meaning to get around to. And when she looks at all of it, she doesn't just see the stuff. She sees every single thing that she has to deal with. And that's where things get overwhelming. So today we're going to figure out how to make this mountain feel a little less intimidating. We'll get into some of the emotional reasons that she's been holding on to things, but we're also going to look at what it actually takes to get started when a project feels this big. Because sometimes the hardest part of organizing isn't the decisions about the stuff, it's figuring out how to begin. Let's meet Shelby.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

My name is Shelby and I live in Minnesota. And I have lived in this house for eight years, downsized. Well, the house is about the same amount of feet, but I had two garages in my old space. And the second garage had room for four cars. So if you have spaces, what do you do? You fill them up. By the time I left, I could only fit a car in that garage. And when my grandparents died and the stuff didn't sell at the garage cell, where did it go? My house. When my mom passed away, a lot of her furniture that didn't sell went to that garage. I have a lot less than I had, but I mean the stuff that you see over there, except for maybe the stuff on the top layers, I haven't touched in eight years since I moved. So that's what's going on. And what I wanted space for is I'm an avid camper and traveler. And when I retired, I've taken two two-month-long trips. Nine weeks actually was the last one. I have a rooftop tent. Out of the nine weeks, six weeks of that was camping. I got a lot of gear. Some of it I had already, because I'm an avid camper. But there was stuff that I needed that I didn't have to be able to be on the road like that. And so yeah, I accumulated stuff and it's like, okay, where do I put it?

SPEAKER_00 3:25

The camping stuff seems to be what you value the most right now. And it also seems like it's the most relevant to your day-to-day life.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

Absolutely. And I use it, but it needs to get organized in a way that makes sense. So when spring comes, I need to be able to grab stuff.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

What's the hardest part of the clutter in this room?

SPEAKER_02 3:43

Um, well, not even knowing where to start, seriously. And knowing that there's some stuff in there that might be antiques, although it didn't sell on the sale when my grandparents moved out. My grandfather was an antique clock dealer and he gathered other things too. Some of it's sentimental, but not all of it. I have ADHD. That's another added dimension. I was diagnosed about two years before I retired. I was like, I really want to know because I seem to have this trouble getting things accomplished and wanting to start things but not finish things. After I was diagnosed, so many things made sense. So it was a good thing. And mostly that affects, well, other people might say differently. But for me, it mostly affects when I'm trying to get stuff done, feeling like everything is a a mountain, a huge high mountain. And so to get to an initiation from idea to actually starting takes so much. I mean, and that energy I can I can avoid really well. I can clean another room.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

So yeah, so that's a part of it too. Say we get started, we get you past the initial hurdle. What in there feels like it's gonna be the hardest part? What to do with stuff.

SPEAKER_02 5:01

Yeah like okay, if it's antiques, do I sell it? Where do I sell it? I have to put it together to sell it, you know. Once I separate out the piles, I mean the the throwaway should be pretty easy. The donate might be a little iffy, but what to do with the rest of the stuff that I am unsure of, especially if it's older antique y things. Like I have my grandma's sewing machine in here somewhere and it can do both electric and foot pedal. And so it's kind of a unique little space of time. It's that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Well, you're so smart. I mean, I've known you for 35 seconds, but it's so clear that you're so smart and you can see ahead. And that ability to see ahead sounds like it's the thing that's getting you stuck because you can tell that in that one pile is about 37,000 actions that you have to solve.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

Decision paralysis right there. I have decided to stay home this winter because I want to be home and nesting.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Yeah. Well, and it sounds like you're in a really unique space because you don't have kids at home anymore. It doesn't sound like you're taking care of any elderly parents. So this is the first maybe moment where you've had a chapter that's really about you. And it makes so much sense that you would take the first part of that chapter and go play because you deserve some play and reward. And now you're like, oh, I'm bringing it home. Like now I'm ready to have my home and my body feel peaceful and not be something I have to run from, but something that also nourishes me. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And are you still actively the family historian?

SPEAKER_02 6:34

Yes, I am, and it has a lot more sentimental value to me than it does to my kids. Some of it's that, and some of it's the what if I need it someday? You know, you know us hoarders, what we do. My son calls me a hoarder, but my daughter's like, no, she's not a hoarder. Yeah, her garage is a mess, but the rest of the house isn't. But it's kind of starting to get that way because the camping stuff's in there, some of it.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

By the way, tell them that hoarding is a verb, not a noun. No one is a hoarder. That's not a thing. Hoarding is a behavior. Someone could have hoarding disorder. I don't perceive that you are hoarding at all. I perceive that you are someone who has taken on the stuff of the people before you while having a brain that is very easily able to see the potential in anything. And it's caused you to be stuck in this little trap where you feel like you have to honor them by making the most of it while also not making space for yourself. And what I see you doing now is you've made space for yourself. And now those things don't have as much of a pull. You know what you're making space for, and that's space for you and space for your adventures. Okay, seriously, hoarding is a behavior, not an identity. And hoarding disorder is an actual diagnosis that deserves respect. We throw the word hoarder around so casually as a joke, as an insult, or a way to shame ourselves and other people. And I really wish we wouldn't. Okay, now I'll get off my soapbox. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. Tell me about your energy cycles. When is your brain working best? When are you the sharpest? Yeah, that's hard to say. Probably after lunch. Okay, so after lunch. Yeah. The reason why I'm asking about your time clock is because this is a longer journey, right? I don't have any fantasy that you're gonna get this done in an hour and a half and be cured for life. So we want you to have time. So if I came to your house right now and I muscled through this with you in two days, you would feel emotionally drained, you'd feel physically drained. So when we are dealing with spaces that have a lot of emotional stuff as well as a lot of physical labor, we want to pace that out. We want to create a strategy. It's so easy to feel overwhelmed because there's so much to do. And how do I even get started? Versus star said two hours. I don't have to do a second longer than two hours. I'm doing two hours, and then the minute I'm done, I'm done. And what we want to do is ideally set this space up so that it's easy for you to come in, do your two hours, leave. Come back the next day, continue where you left off, leave. We're looking at this not as just like a weekend big push, but what does the strategy look like? It never takes as long as we think it will. If I said to you this space is gonna take you 30 hours, if that's spread over multiple weeks, it's not so bad. That's spread over two days is awful, it's torturous.

SPEAKER_02 9:06

You know, the thought of 30 hours all by itself, you just go, okay, I'm gonna go to the bar, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

See you later. Yeah, be a margarita. If I said three hours every week for 10 weeks, that's doable.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

That's doable. Right?

SPEAKER_00 9:20

So it's it's how we set it up. 30 hours sounds awful, but not doing anything keeps that number at 30 hours versus okay, what is a reasonable amount that I can work on? Because the thing is, is you're going to not just be moving stuff, which you are, you're also going to be researching where is the best place to sell antiques in your area? Where is the best place to recycle that paint that needs to be reused or needs to be properly disposed of? So part of organizing is research. Part of organizing is really solving these questions because that's the stuff that's keeping us stuck. I have no doubt that you can drive a cuckoo clock to a store 20 minutes away, but you taking the hour it might take to figure that out feels stressful.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Yeah, it's all the decisions. Yeah. All the decisions.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

And what most people will do is when we're quote unquote organizing, they'll say, Oh, I need to find the right place to take this clock. I'll research it later. And then later they're tired and they don't want to. The research is part of the organizing session. If you spend an hour of your two-hour session researching where to take the clock, that is organizing. That's counted within your time block. It's not just when you're physically moving stuff or hauling things to goodwill. How many hours a week do you feel like you would be able and willing to work on this project each week?

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Well, I like the idea of four hours a week, but I might want to split it up into like either four one hours or I'd want to play with that.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Two, two hours. Be your own science project because you'll find a sweet spot. You're smart to think about shorter bursts because you're dealing with really overwhelming stuff. And you might have days where that one hour turns into five hours. That's great. The thing we're looking for is the tipping point. We're looking for the point where this doesn't feel the level of overwhelming that it feels right now. So if we say four hours a week, sure. Yeah, let's do four hours a week. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:09

And yeah. If I am into it and it's not feeling heavy, I'll keep on keeping up. I've got time.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

And how do you do with rewards? Do you like a reward when you get started? Do you like a reward when you finish? What is most motivating to you? Both. No. That's okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

Kind of. Um, but yeah, I mean, something to look forward to is a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

So what if we found something that was a little treat at the beginning and at the end?

SPEAKER_02 11:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

Like, is there something that really brings you a lot of joy? Something like little and pleasurable that we could do at the beginning. A lot of times I have like my ADHD clients, I will show up with their favorite drink because I need them to be excited to get started. Like I'm about to torture them. We need some juice. Yes. Yeah. So what would be a good opening treat?

SPEAKER_02 11:57

There is like a bubbly water that has juice in it, although another treat that I'm realizing more and more how much it feeds me. Being outside, going and sitting in the back of my house. I mean the the birds and the wind and the uh the smells and I have big trees in the back.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

It's just calming. Yeah, yeah. And it's physiologically calming. It's not just perception-wise. Right. We do calm down when we hear birds and when we see sunshine, and it helps us balance.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

Green is the color calm, dude. Totally. Yeah, it's pretty wild. Yeah. When I'm done, let's just take me five to whatever minutes out sitting down to decompress to kind of to yay, yay, I did it.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

Okay, so we have our bubbly water with juice to start, and then we have our sitting outside to end. Perfect. So I'd love to see the space.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

Here we go. Look at that.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

It's the electro. Look at that clutter. I can open the garage door if we need more light. Okay. No, I can see it. Perfect. A lot of tools in here, which is great. And then would you say the stuff by the door is like stuff that's used in the house, kind of like house overflow?

SPEAKER_02 13:07

Well, there's a pile to the left that I pulled out of my car. It just didn't need to be in there. And then there's, I mean, there's stuff everywhere. Even on top of the barbecue.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

On top of the BBQ. Yes. It's a Barbie. Totally.

SPEAKER_02 13:21

Yeah. And like I said, it's just I've accumulated rather than gotten rid of. So there we are.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

And then I'm assuming you do park in this garage, right? I do, yeah. The open space that's there, yeah. I park. But I knew that that wouldn't work for this. Yeah, totally. We need space for your body. Yes. Okay. So when you think about this garage being completely finished, what are the three to five categories of items that you want to store here?

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Three to five. Well, camping. One of the shelves in the far back wall, just one set of shelves is like a pantry. I mean, I do have a big tall pantry in the kitchen, but I shop at Costco.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

So well, it's like pantry overflow paper products, like backup right. Yes. Yeah, that's very common. Okay, so we've got camping, pantry. What else? Um yard and garden kind of. Yard and garden.

SPEAKER_02 14:08

And what about tools? And tools. Yeah. Oh, anyway. I do have some recreational things. I mean, I have a kayak hanging there. I have a blow-up kayak in another spot. I mean, that's that's different than camping, but they can go together.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

So like recreational and sporting goods? Yep.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

And then would you want to store any memorabilia or sentimental items? Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

I do have a cabinet over there, a shorter one.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Okay. And would the goal be that any furniture either come into the house to be used or gotten rid of? Yes. Okay. And I know there's two pieces in there. Okay. Totally. Yep. Okay. So these categories seem super clean to me. You seem really clear on what you want in here. What I want to do is set up an organizing station. One of the things I love to do when we're working on bigger organizing projects like this is to set up a dedicated organizing station. This could be as simple as a folding table with trash recycling and donation bins hiding underneath it. The idea is to have a space that's ready for you whenever you want to work, because especially for people with ADHD, the setup and cleanup can take so much energy that there's not much left for the actual organizing. So instead of having to gather your supplies, find the trash bags, and figure out where you're going to work every time, you can just walk in and get started. Is there anywhere in this space that you could imagine setting that up? Even if it means having to reconfigure some of the items that are around that space? I was gonna say there's no room for that right now.

SPEAKER_02 15:33

I mean, because I have a really long car, I have a Subaru out back. So it takes, I mean, I have just enough space on each side to walk into your car.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

You're like sucking in to walk into your car. Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_02 15:44

The door doesn't open all the way. So I would have to clear a space for it, but I'm almost thinking back there in front of the pantry.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

I am too. I am too. Let's look at let's solve this. Yep. I know it seems like we're spending a lot of time prepping, but this is the stuff that's gonna make you doing it possible. I'm thinking about in front of there and to the left of the tool bench where the Kleenex is sitting on.

SPEAKER_02 16:05

No, it's a piece of well, yeah. It used to be it was from my old garage. It's got a bunch of drawers where people put uh tools or supplies, whatever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

Could that be our workspace? Oh, maybe if that's the only amount of space that we need, that could be. Yeah, I like it because you could actually work while your car's in the garage too.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

I like that. Let's see what it would take to clear that space for you to work in it. And here's the deal: I don't really care where you put that stuff. I just care that we create a clear space because we're gonna get to everything eventually, but we need you to have a workspace that feels safe and comfortable. All right. So some of these things that you come across, you might be able to put away in its like permanent home. If you can, great. If not, let's just get it put somewhere else so that you have that open workspace. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

Well, I'm thinking right now I can break this down. Should I break it down? Yeah, break it down.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

We need some easy wins to get started. We want to feel easy progress for you. All right. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:59

Woohoo! That's all in the recycling. Yay, good job. Boots that are my old boots that I don't even wear anymore. Could I donate those? Yes, I could. Can I bring them right now? Yes, I can.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

Let's make a donation box or bag, something we can easily add to. I've got uh several bins and a box. So I want you to notice how immediately and effortlessly you moved into action when we started your yeah, yeah, true. Yeah, so and the reason for that is because I gave you a very clear, specific directive. Yeah, clear that space. I didn't say let's organize everything.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

Well, and you know what? You didn't even say organize, you just said clear, which I think for me that makes a difference, even.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Yes, yes, I agree. Organizing shields overwhelming. Well, there's so many steps to it, and the truth is that organizing is a lot of mini steps, which is fine, but sometimes we need smaller directives than that.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

Okay, this is a donation. I just gotta say something because you see this all the time, I suppose. Here's an antique drawer that a friend of mine said, You could use this as I don't even remember, like a shelf, which you could. I could put it up as a shelf. Uh-huh. But how you know how long I've had this? How long? At least 10 years.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Have I ever done anything with it?

SPEAKER_02 18:10

No.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

No, but it's one of the trickiest parts of ADHD is seeing the potential in something and that enhancing its value.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Yes. And never doing anything with it.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Oh, totally. If I donate it, no one's gonna see it. It'll never be made into the perfect display cabinet. Yeah. But what I love and what I think is gonna make this project so much easier for you, Shelby, is the fact that you are so clear about what you want your life to look like. You want to go on adventures, you want to go camping, you want to feel good in your home. That inspires so much and helps us make progress because you know where you're going. Versus when we don't have a clear intention, the clutter directs us. And then we end up in this swirl.

SPEAKER_02 18:50

Good point. Well, look at there. There it is. What is it?

SPEAKER_00 18:52

So is that the cabinet? Uh, it's the cabinet, yeah. Perfect. So great job on that. Let's clear the walkway in front of it. Yep. Camping stuff, all kinds of camping stuff. You've got it. Good swag.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

And uh the there's a cabinet back there, that gray cabinet that has a lot of stuff. But you know, I used to have a clear path to go back there.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

Now you will again. You're going to in like 10 minutes. It's gonna be great.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

Yes. Okay, my mom, no, my grandma and grandpa had a walker. What do I have? A walker. Because someday I might need it. I mean, now I think I should just, you know, just donate it to somewhere. Yeah. Because whatever.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

And if you need one in the future, you can acquire one.

SPEAKER_02 19:33

Right, exactly. But then you know what my budgety brain thinks? Well, it'll cost money and I won't want to pay.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

But think about this too. You're giving yours. So at some point, maybe someone will be giving yours away.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

Yeah, but isn't it? It's just, I mean, you do this all the time. So you know, people aren't ready to do stuff until they're ready to do stuff, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:51

Yeah, it's true. And it's also a discussion about security. You're not thinking, does this deserve space in my house? You're thinking, what if in 20 years I can't afford one and I wish I kept this one? Right. It's almost like this self-preservation survivalist mentality kicks on.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

Yep, because I've been, yeah, living on a not a huge budget. There were some life circumstances that happened that now my budget isn't as low as it could have been. So I feel very blessed that way. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

And I hope for you a life where you never need a walker, that you are so active and fit and strong that you never need it, that you can just be free and that's not a path for you. Yeah. And that's my desire as well.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

Yeah. There's so many layers of am I safe if I let this go? That's very fair. It's reasonable to want to make sure that you're protecting your resources. Yeah. You're doing great. What's next? I don't even know what's in this box. Surprise. Go ahead and set it right on top of the workspace. Okay. Because we'll make that maybe one of your first things to work on.

SPEAKER_02 20:44

And these old ladders, they're my grandpa's. Oh. So it was like Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

All right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:51

You know, there comes the time. Yeah. Oh, there's another piece of furniture back there.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

Surprise.

SPEAKER_02 20:56

I forgot about.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

Okay, good. All right. So does the space feel clear and like you could work in there? Yeah. Oh, I love that. Okay, good. It's kind of amazing. It is amazing. You did so good. So now you have your workspace. So let's make sure we have a trash, a recycling, and maybe a donation box. We also want to start collecting your tools. We just want to create like a little station where you never have to get your scissors from the house or you never need to get an X Acto knife to open a box or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 21:21

Yeah, and let me bring the tape, a marker, the utility knife, my glasses if I need them. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Okay. So let's have you play with going through that box really quickly. Let's see what it's like to work on this surface. All right.

SPEAKER_02 21:35

This is an old kind of rope, which I have a billion things of rope. So I don't think I need it. I'm going to do that in the garbage. Perfect. Okay. I bought this forever ago and I was going to use it to put it in the donation box. Look at you are ready for this today. I'm ready. Oh man. I'm so I've I think I've been ready for a really long time. Okay, this I don't even know what it is. I don't even know what that is. What is that? Is it like a

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Pencil. It's a w uh oh maybe. Uh it could be.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

Could you use it on your from the thrift store? Did I ever use it?

SPEAKER_00 22:07

No. What if you used it on your workbench for like a Sharpie, a pair of scissors, and yeah. Yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah. Good idea.

SPEAKER_02 22:15

Look at you go. We got this. We got this. Okay. Anything else and all this stuff? No.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

All right. I'm gonna take this paper over to the garbage. So you got through that box in like three minutes. Okay, there's still stuff in there. Okay. Just kidding. You you're doing great. It's only taken you three minutes so far.

SPEAKER_02 22:33

I really like, but I mean it's been sitting here for how many years? Yeah. Okay, go. And you know what? And you probably obviously know this already. It helps when you're not doing this alone. Yes. I do want to keep these. What are they? Booking. Because I have books on top of my dresser. Okay. So this and this. Then I can throw everything else. Look at that.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

Oh my gosh. Okay. Amazing. All right. All right. Good job. Okay, so I want you to track how quickly you did that box. I have no idea. Really quickly. Did it feel quick to you or did it feel like it took you a long time? No, it feels like it didn't take me a long time at all. It didn't feel easy peasy. It was, yeah. And the reason why it's easy peasy is because you actually have a surface to work on. You're not having the stress of having to like twerk around or find something. You have everything you need. So we want to keep doing that. I'm going to put you on a slightly different project next because you did so well. What I want you to do is I want you to do a donation trash pull. So I want you to walk the length of the pile that's there in front of you. What you're looking for is anything that's very obvious that can be thrown away, recycled, or donated. Okay. It might not be that easy. Maybe. That's okay. If you find two things, I'm happy with that. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

Okay. There's one thing. It's not much, but it's one thing.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

That's okay. We're just looking for any obvious, easy thing.

SPEAKER_02 23:55

I do see something back there. I see something in the back, but okay. Yeah, it's too hard to get it. Yeah. So all I could come up with really quickly without going into bins is this planter singing. Perfect.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

We'll take it.

SPEAKER_02 24:11

Do you feel like you grabbed the stuff that seemed easy? I grabbed the stuff that seemed easy, which wasn't a lot of it, but at least it was something.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

Yeah. Okay, now we're gonna go the opposite direction. What is the hardest thing that you know of in that garage? That I can see right now or how hard thing that I know of that you can access right now.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

Maybe. No, if it's the hardest thing, but it's the closest thing. Yeah, we'll take it. Okay. Let's get it. We'll do that. I see two things. One of them I think I'm ready to give up, but Okay, look, this is an antique from the 60s. It's a teaser. It's very cool. I know. Isn't it way cool? Oh my gosh. Somebody who is doing their whole retro theme would love it.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

They really will. That is like someone's dream.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

The Juice King, but I don't need it anymore. That's the kind of thing where I'm gonna need to put it on look up online to see how much it's worth, put it on Facebook Marketplace.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

So we need to create a to sell area. Yeah. Let's create a to sell box. Yeah. And then make sure you label all four sides of that box so that it doesn't get confused with donations or something you haven't looked at yet. Okay. One thing I really try to avoid when we're organizing is splintering off into a bunch of other projects. If you find something that you want to sell or something that needs to be repaired or a project you need to finish, you do not have to stop and do that right now. Our job in this phase is to give those things a clear home so you can come back and deal with them when you're ready. Otherwise, one organizing project can very quickly turn into 10 different projects and nothing actually gets finished.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

Toward the front of the garage is my great-grandmother's rocking chair. But I do have her spinning wheel in the corner of my dining room that still works. I don't know how long it'll keep working since nobody uses it, but it's one of those things that the kids will be like, get rid of it. But it was my great grandma's. And you know, I always pictured having her chair and the spinning wheel together, but now see it's easier when you have someone here because I'm not ever gonna refinish it. It's just not gonna happen. Yeah. Do I just donate it or is it?

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Yeah, yeah, I think so. Okay. Especially if there's places that do take more unique items like that, especially the area of the world you're in. I feel like people do value antiques and kind of unique items there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

So I could donate it and then I'll have more space up there. And then I also have this old real-to-reel tape recorder, which is it doesn't have that much in a manual value, but it's one of those things. It was my cousins, and I don't know how I ended up with it, but I did. And I keep thinking, that's gotta be worth something. I could see how much it's worth. If it's not worth much, I'll just donate it because I don't have the bandwidth for it. Yeah. It's not that important to me. I I inherited lots of things when I moved into here.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

Yeah, yeah, and you're right. I think one of the biggest things we have to weigh is what's worth your time. Cause I think one of the challenges that I see for people with ADHD is the easy distractability of like logging in, loading it, posting it, and then remembering to check the messages. There is a component of cost mentally for selling anything. And it's fine if you are willing to do it, but it can be really hard if you're not. And then these hanging pieces that are waiting for you, it's almost just better to donate them. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:15

So why don't I go clear? There's stuff on that rocking chair. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

Perfect. That sounds great. And then I think what we'll start doing is we'll start loading the car.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

And not to like ambush you with more, but do you feel like you might want to donate the ladders from your grandpa when you do this? Uh too far?

SPEAKER_02 27:35

Well, I I think I could do one of them. And then it might be easier to do the next one. But it just feels better right now for me to say one. Then they're not both gone, you know?

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Yes, I support that for you because I hear that you're ready to get rid of them or really close to ready. But sometimes we just want to pick up on that momentum. And I really honor you not wanting to get rid of both right now.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

All right. So I got the rocking chair. What were we going to do? So loading the car. Yeah, let's load the car. All right. Okay. So that comes back there. Did it fit? Boom. I've been thinking about that for a while. Yeah, I got it to sit in the front seat. Okay, good. Is there is there room for the ladder in there? Oh, yeah, yeah. The ladder. Yeah. I think, yeah, I think I can make that work. Perfect. I forgot about that. Good for you.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

I got you. That's why it helps to have somebody else. It really does. It helps to have that second set of eyes, but also just to have somebody with you is very helpful for motivation and perseverance.

SPEAKER_02 28:29

I was going to say the motivation.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

The motivation is big. Yeah. We could walk away when we're by ourselves and we're much less likely to do it if somebody else is with us. My neighbors are going to be in shock. I'm going to be in shock. Yeah. You're going to be, you're going to be so busy out exploring the world, you won't even have time for their shock and awe. It's going to feel so good. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:50

Feels good already. So it makes it feel possible.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

Yeah. And there is something about time. There's something about when we've waited a certain amount of time, things have less of a pull on them. Yes. Yeah. Like 10 years ago, you may not have been able to do this because that stuff still felt really valuable and important and necessary. And you're in a very different chapter of your life now. And you couldn't have known that 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

Oh, completely. I mean that that chair of my great grandma's no way would I have let it go because I just wasn't ready. But when it sits somewhere for that long, it's just like it's okay now.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

It is.

SPEAKER_02 29:24

I can still honor her and not have to keep that.

SPEAKER_00 29:27

Exactly. Exactly. And you honor her really by living your most active life. Yep. Yep. So now what I'd like you to do, I want you to work on one more mixed up box. So I want you to like go to your station with a box and I'm going to time you this time. Starting now. So you found one box that we're working on? Yep. Okay, perfect.

SPEAKER_02 29:46

Okay. This is pulled from the tent that goes around the back of my car that I don't use anymore since I have my rooftop tent that I want to sell. Got your to sell box. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

So that's to sell. I do think you're going to end up with a fair chunk of things to sell. And you'll notice that I'm not asking you to list them now. And the reason why is because that is a whole day's project. It's researching how much you want to list them for, listing them, and doing it on a week where you have the time and the focus to do it. Okay, I'm in town this week and I can totally man this project. We want to be really strategic about when you do that. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:20

I have no idea what this stuff is. Closet door installation. Well, if I get another door, I'll have those parts. I don't need those parts. I'm gonna throw it away. That's what my in-laws, and I don't think my mom did that so much, but I do. Just in case. Just in case. It's you looking out for future you, which is admirable. All right. So okay. My mom's old leather coat when she had a motorcycle. I'll put it in the donation box. Perfect. This is an ancient tarp that just needs to be thrown. Oh, it smells like a campfire though.

unknown 30:50

No.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

Good memories. Very good memories. And this, it's not a painting, I don't think. Maybe it's a painting. No. I want to keep it. I've got to bring it to my friend and see what can be done about it. My grandfather. Oh wow. Wow. That's really special. And it's been out in the garage. It got some water damage on the top, and the frame is old too. But I have a friend, I think, who could work with the picture. I want to keep it.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Okay. So something like that can go into more of like a projects area where you know what the action is.

SPEAKER_02 31:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

Like into a bin or it can go into a bin. Yeah. And actually, if you put it in a bin and you wrote projects on the bin, then it becomes something that you can add other projects to that require more effort from you. Okay. Because there are going to be lots of things like that. Because the truth is if you don't do anything about that right now, nothing bad will happen. If you've got 20 projects in that box, you're fine. But if you let that project slow you down and not get to clearing the rest of the space, you'll feel that way more.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

Okay. So you should I do that now?

SPEAKER_00 31:46

Yes, please. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:47

Let's see. What else is in here? Nothing of consequence, I'm sure. Okay. So garbage, garbage, garbage, garbage.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

But then the rest is it's empty. Yay, that's great. Okay. Once you put everything away, I'll stop your timer. Okay, done. All right, perfect. So is everything from that box totally put away? Yep. Hey, good job. Awesome. So how long do you think it took you to do that box? 15, 20 minutes? 12 minutes. Oh my gosh. 12 minutes. Now, how many boxes like that do you think are out there?

SPEAKER_02 32:19

Um, I mean, there's some boxes that are gonna take longer, but like that, maybe let's say six.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Okay. So that would literally take you just over an hour. So why for you I'm breaking this down is because that pile feels overwhelming and oppressive. But the truth is it's made up of lots of little activities that you can do very easily within your one hour time frame. And when you have something that's extra hard, when you have something that feels like it's really overwhelming, call a friend, call one of your kids. You can set up on Zoom just like we were, or you can have someone come over and just hang out with you. There really is magic in doing it when someone else is around. They don't need to know what you're doing, they don't need to talk to you, they don't need to process it with you, but their presence being there can be really helpful for keeping you on track, especially when something is challenging.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

Totally.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

So after our session today, how overwhelming does that space feel to organize now? No, I'm like, okay, I'm ready to get at it.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

I mean, it still feels like I'm gonna hit some like, oh crap, there's this. But I mean, I can go, okay, do the easy stuff first. Do the easy stuff first.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

And this is why I love starting with the easy stuff. Because as you clear those things out, eventually something that felt hard becomes the next easiest thing. And even if all you do is clear out the 90% of the easy stuff and you leave that 10% of the hardest stuff for later, it's still a huge improvement. You don't have to solve everything. You just have to keep making the mountain smaller. What percentage of what's in there do you think you're gonna end up getting rid of? Um 70.

unknown 33:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

So that means for every 10 things you touch, seven of them are leaving. But when you come across those three items that you're gonna keep, you're probably going to keep them either because they're a permanent part of your stuff, like a permanent part of your garage, or they're things you need to do something about and it's gonna take you longer. We want you to have those subcategories. I don't worry that suddenly you've added three boxes because those three boxes have a very specific purpose. Things to sell. Yes, things I need to do. And they're actually making it so you can get rid of the rest. If you had been doing this before me, you probably would have come across those things that were bigger projects, gotten frustrated, put everything back in the box and walked away. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

Yep. I would have decided, what am I gonna do with it? Now what? I don't know where. Okay, look up what it's worth and then get lost in that hole without moving forward with things that are easier.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

Exactly. And when you're done with this and you sit down and you say, okay, today I want to sell some things, and that becomes your only focus for a few weeks. That might feel really good to you and feel empowering, and you're focused on that versus trying to do a little bit of that every week splinters your focus, and that's not beneficial to how your brain works at all. So, how do you feel now that we're done? Really good, encouraged, good, yeah, encouraged, energized, hopeful. If someone was struggling with a similar project, what advice would you give them besides getting a session with you?

SPEAKER_02 35:13

I might say, what do you envision seeing this space? You know, that start, kind of the some of the questions that you asked.

unknown 35:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:23

What categories do you have? Things that you think you're gonna keep, breaking it down into smaller pieces.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Yeah, it's funny how I think when most people get organized, they launch in and they're immediately digging through their clutter, but they don't take the time to do the strategy that you and I did at the beginning. And that strategy is the thing that makes the system easier and work better and make it a more lasting process versus getting burned out and overwhelmed. So now this is a slightly trick question, but what are you gonna do after we hang up right now?

SPEAKER_02 35:52

Go sit outside.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

Excellent. Excellent lessons learned.

SPEAKER_02 35:56

That's what I want to do. Just sit on my chair out there and listen to the birds. Well, you have earned it, my friend. You did so great today. Oh, thank you. And thank you so much. Having another voice, it just it's like you're carrying part of the load, really. It doesn't feel as oppressive as when I'm by myself.

SPEAKER_00 36:13

What I love about this session is that Shelby's mountain of clutter hasn't gone anywhere. There's still a garage full of stuff, plenty of decisions to make, and a whole lot of work ahead of her. But something has changed. At the beginning of our conversation, Shelby could only see the mountain. Every box, every project, every decision that she would have to eventually make was stacked up and so overwhelming that she couldn't figure out where to start. But once we broke things down, gave her a place to work and started making a few decisions, she realized something really important. She actually knows how to do this. And I think that's what Shelby's really making space for. Making the impossible possible. Not because the mountains suddenly disappeared, but because she could finally see a way through it. She doesn't need to figure out what to do with every single thing before she can start. And she doesn't have to make every difficult decision today. I think that's something we can all take away from this conversation. Sometimes we get so focused on how far we have to go that we forget to look at what's right in front of us. And the beautiful thing is that Shelby didn't need to conquer the whole mountain to feel successful. She just needed to find a way to start climbing. And now she's ready to keep going. So, if you've got your own mountain of clutter waiting for you, I hope this episode helps you see that you don't have to tackle the whole thing at once. You just have to figure out your next step. Thank you so much for spending time with us today. Every organizing session tells a different story, but they all leave us with one question. What are you making space for? As you move through your day, I hope you'll carry that question with you. Because getting organized isn't about creating a perfect home. It's about creating more room for the life you want to live. And if you're ready to start making space in your own life, I'd love to help. You can download a free copy of my book, Why the Am I Still Not Organized, at starhanson.com forward slash podcast, where you'll also find resources, classes, and ways we can work together. Until next time, keep making space for what matters most.