What Are You Making Space For?
Real people. Real clutter. Real organizing sessions. Come inside the rooms people don't want anyone else to see, and discover what our clutter can reveal about our lives, ourselves, and what we're making space for next.
Because clutter isn't actually about the stuff.
What Are You Making Space For?
Mica’s Fridge: Making Space to Nurture Herself
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Mica has five kids, a full-time job, and a refrigerator that never seems to stay organized.
She's constantly shopping, cooking, putting food away, and trying to keep up with a fridge that's being used by seven different people. And no matter how hard she tries, food keeps getting lost, things go bad, and the whole process feels overwhelming.
So we're going to pull everything out, figure out what she actually has, and create some systems that make the fridge easier for the whole family to use.
But as we start digging into the food, we discover that a full refrigerator means a lot more to Mica than simply having enough to eat.
We talk about her childhood experiences with food, why an overflowing fridge can feel comforting and overwhelming at the same time, and what happens when you're so busy taking care of everyone else that you forget to include yourself.
And, of course, we get into the practical stuff too…categories, bins, labels, and what to do when the organizing systems you've created start feeling a little too restrictive.
By the end of our session, Mica has a fridge that feels calmer, a better understanding of why this space has been so challenging, and a new idea for making sure she's one of the people being taken care of.
Because with five kids to feed, there's always room for one more person at the table. Especially when that person is you.
Resources mentioned:
- Why the F#@ Am I Still Not Organized? (free download): https://starhansen.com/podcast/
You cannot just give up, even though you've tried 57,000 times. And at the end of the day, if you're still breathing, there is hope. Keep on pushing.
SPEAKER_00Welcome to What Are You Making Space For? I'm Star Hansen, certified professional organizer, trauma-informed coach, and clutter whisperer. For more than 20 years, I've seen firsthand that getting organized is almost never about the stuff. Clutter's just the start. Every space tells a story. And behind every pile of clutter, you'll find life transitions, grief, trauma, perfectionism, relationships, dreams we've outgrown, and sometimes the dreams we're just beginning to imagine. On this podcast, we'll step inside real organizing sessions to explore what our belongings are trying to tell us, why we get stuck, and what we're ready to make space for next. These episodes come directly from virtual organizing sessions with people who have generously invited us into their organizing journey by agreeing to share their stories on this podcast. Whether you're hoping to clear a closet, understand yourself a little bit better, or simply feel less alone, I'm glad you're here. Let's find out what we're making space for today. On this week's episode, I wanted to do something a little different and focus on a smaller space. Because sometimes a small space can make a really big difference. And one of my favorite small spaces to tackle is the refrigerator. It's a place that many people are in and out of all day long, which means that when systems are not working or if they're non-existent, you can feel the impact of that clutter way more than other areas. Clutter here means wasted food, forgotten ingredients, and more work. It means opening your fridge and feeling overwhelmed by what's inside, but having no idea what to make or even what you have. If you have clutter sitting around in your linen closet, for example, you may not even notice that. But when your fridge is cluttered, you're feeling the impact every single time you open that door. So I asked if anyone wanted some help organizing their fridge, and Micah stepped forward. She's a mama five, she works full-time, and she cooks dinner most nights. Her fridge is constantly being emptied and filled back up and used by seven different people. So today we're going to see if we can make this one small but very hardworking space function a little bit better. And as you'll hear, it turns out there's a lot more in Micah's fridge than just food.
SPEAKER_01Hi everybody, my name is Micah. I am a mom of five and I work full time. My fridge is something that I cannot make peace with because I guess you could see I'm feeding a lot of mouth and I'm making a supper every night. I'm also trying to budget by not eating out so many times. So here and there we do go out, but most of the time I am making suffers. And especially Sunday when everyone's home, everyone's hungry all the time. I just feel like I'm always shopping and I'm always restuffing, restocking, and I can never catch up. And things go to waste, sadly, because either they get left behind or I'm just too busy. And I just wanted to know if there's something that I'm not doing or that I am doing. I don't know what is stopping me or blocking me from just managing my fridge at a normal pace.
SPEAKER_00Well, tell me more about what you all eat. So I'm curious if the kids are old enough to feed themselves, if they make meals too, if you're the primary cook in the house, and then if they are able to access snacks by themselves. That's a great question.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so the age ranges are nine months to 13 years old. They all have different palates, but mostly they eat healthy stuff like salmon, fresh vegetables, and scrambled eggs. Cereal mud is not really so much, but like let's say right now, supper tonight, I bought frozen pizza and frozen fries, and I'm putting it on the pizza makers for supper because I just can't manage. Mostly it's healthy stuff. Yes, there is like snacks like yogurt and chips, shrink cheese if we need but yeah, usually it's fresh fruit. That's what it is. And if it's not fresh food, it's usually leftovers, which also gets left over, right? So that's what it is. Can I see your fridge? Sure. I actually, before school started, I'm like, I cannot function with my headspace because there's so much going on. So I actually did organize it a little bit, but there's stuff so you could take a look. Oh, I love a tell the fridge. There's like tons of stuff. It was worse. This is nice, actually. It was worse. This is the drawer that just gets dumped like you can see this is even moldy. It didn't have to get a minute to take it out, and then the freezer. This was always also organized, but it's just stuff. If I have to take one thing out, everything has to fall out.
SPEAKER_00Do you have a tape measure? A tape measure, yeah. Okay, let's get to dimensions of your fridge. Because first and foremost, we have to figure out like what size are we working with? What I want you to do is I want you to measure one of the shelves. I just want to know the width across and the depth. So from the back of the fridge to the front of the shelf. I'm curious what that size is.
SPEAKER_01It is a little bit more than two feet lengthwise. And then width wise, it is actually 16 inches.
SPEAKER_00Oh, perfect. Okay. That's pretty standard. Okay, great.
SPEAKER_01I feel like the fridge is always changing because I have to go shopping every week, right? And we have Sabbath. It's like a Thanksgiving dinner every week.
SPEAKER_00Do you all keep a kosher home? Yes, we do. So tell me a little bit about the kosher kitchen and how is it represented in what we're seeing right now? Great question. So we don't mix milk and meat.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I could put milk and meat, like let's say like a bottle of milk next to like a salami or whatever. It's all wrapped up anyway, so it's fine to be on the same shelf and everything's in plastic bags. It could be next to each other, but we just don't eat it together. That's all that it is.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so it can be stored next to each other, but it can't be exactly okay. So tell me a little bit more about how you're feeling with your fridge right now.
SPEAKER_01It's just like always an ongoing thing, it's not a consistent thing. I have to find a new way to manage it. And I'm like, okay, you know what? I don't like this type of wear in there. It's circular. I want something more square. So I got glass ones, but then I'm like, even in the glass ones, they're going bad. So I just I'm not managing. I think that I could do better. I just feel very overwhelmed whenever I open it. So that's where we're holding, overwhelmed and just not calm. So on your door is one of the sections missing. Yes, it actually broke. It's good. Actually, saw that. And I'm like, you know what? Maybe it's better if I have less shelves because then I won't have stuff to manage more of. And I'm like, you know what? It's yeah. So I didn't order it on purpose. I'm like, you know what? It looks a little cleaner.
SPEAKER_00One of the things that makes refrigerators so tricky to organize is that they're really deep, which sounds great because we have all the space for food, but then things get pushed to the back, we can't see what we have, and by the time we find it, it's usually gone bad. So we want to figure out how to make all that space more accessible. The first thing we're going to do is we're going to take everything out of the fridge and group it into categories. But before we do that, we need to make sure we have a clear surface to work on. This could be your kitchen counter, your dining room table, or even a folding table. Then while everything's out, we'll give the fridge a good cleaning, get rid of anything that's expired or no longer wanted, and start thinking about how we want things to go back into the fridge. Ultimately, we're going to create some systems that make everything easier to find and access using bins, labels, and designated spaces for different categories of food. And then we'll put everything back in and play around with the placement until we find something that really works. So let's start by getting everything out and grouping it into categories: snacks together, leftovers together, vegetables, fruit.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so homemade pizza. Now we make the dairy category into one category. Okay. So make the dips. We're braving on dips.
SPEAKER_00Okay, and then we have drinks, salad, and one area. How's it feeling as you're taking everything out? Um, but I feel like it's a lot of stuff.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01And it claimed that when I go shopping, I should just buy things for that week. But if it goes on sale, I'm like, maybe I am saving money by buying more, even though.
SPEAKER_00Oh, completely. Tell me a little bit about your meal prepping and planning right now.
SPEAKER_01I actually ordered three big containers to make the pot of rice, a pot of pasta, just to have on hand. This yeah, I'm not running into the house making something. And I will be making hopefully a menu, uh, meal plan. But every time I try, I do it, I'll do it for one or two weeks, and then I'll just stop it.
SPEAKER_00Do you have kind of trusty standby recipes that work really well for your family that you repeat?
SPEAKER_01Yes and no. There's only so much that I can do. We all have different supper times. We're not having a set supper time. My husband comes home much later. The kids are hungry at four after. So I'm like, I feel like I'm just reserving and they don't like the supper. Then I'm like, you know what? I made one supper and I'm not making two. If you want to eat something, go get a yogurt, go get something. I don't know. That's great.
SPEAKER_00That's very healthy. It's very healthy that you are having such good, strong boundaries around it. I'm trying.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, that's where we're holding. So I'm like, maybe it's just a bottomless pit for the rest of my life that I'll never ever manage.
SPEAKER_00How about you? What about your nutritional needs? Are you still in the kind of like follow the kids around and eat what's left on their plate phase? Or do you feel like you can actually feed yourself a meal that works for you?
SPEAKER_01So just recently, like about two weeks ago, I'm like, I'm so tired of this weight gain and baby fat, whatever you want to call it, that like I am getting older and I do want to buckle down my nutrition and health and fitness. I used to pick at everything that they would eat and just eat their leftovers, but then I'm like, I'm not a garbage can. Totally. I deserve more than someone else's discards. Exactly. And I've taught myself recently to tell them, mommy's eating now. I cannot toss to you, I cannot sign that paper. And it's something that I'm working on, but I want to stop eating their stuff. And I have been trying to make myself healthy meals.
SPEAKER_00I'm glad that's been a priority. It's so hard to do the work of a mother, which is just non-stop, relentless, and then be generally undernourished and underslept. It's a super important thing.
SPEAKER_01Right, exactly. So I'm like, maybe it's just survival mode until until until. Yeah. Until when?
SPEAKER_00We can start a countdown clock. I know it's it's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah. And it's a beautiful time. It's really a hard time, and it's also a beautiful time. There will be no time like this in your life. So it's something to enjoy.
SPEAKER_01I know. So I'm almost done. Okay.
SPEAKER_00You're doing great. So now I'm to the vegetable drawers. I'm gonna empty that out also. Oh, yeah. Get it all out. We're gonna empty everything out and then we're gonna clean everything down really nicely, and then we're gonna start strategizing how it'll go back in.
SPEAKER_01So I'm actually impressed because it's not as dirty as it usually is.
SPEAKER_00Yay!
SPEAKER_01Okay. One thing I found that gives me a little bit of anxiety when the fridge is a little bit empty. Like I find it satisfying. I don't know about I don't know if the word is satisfying. I find it relieving, I guess. That's the word that I could best come up with when it's full. But when it's overstuffed, I find it's very like loud. Do you get what I mean? I do. So like yeah.
SPEAKER_00If it's empty, it activates anxiety, but if it's overly full, it's too noisy. Right.
SPEAKER_01And I just want to get it right, but then I feel like I don't want to be running every single day to the store. Yeah. And then someone mentioned to me, I just go every week and get what I need for that week. I'm like, what? You just get what you need for that week? Like, how does that work?
SPEAKER_00Totally. I understand their logic and it makes sense. But again, when we're trying to stretch a dollar and we're feeding multiple people, we get a deal when we can, and then it's making space. Do you have a second fridge in the house or a second freezer?
SPEAKER_01I do. It's downstairs and it's much bigger. What do you keep in the downstairs? Um, so downstairs fridge, it's usually like leftovers and soda, the things I buy in bulk that I need in the fridge or freezer like bagels, bread, frozen meat, stuff like that.
SPEAKER_00Was there ever a time where there was scarcity with food for you in your childhood?
SPEAKER_01I do remember going to school and wanting certain snacks and just not having them, or like coming home from school on the bus and I was starving, and I would like started to grumble and I was so hungry and I wanted to stack, especially Dires' time we would have. Like we would get snacks, but it wasn't like I don't know, it wasn't just like a big bag of like stuff. It was like one or two, three things. And when I pack up my kids' stuff, I always tell them, I don't care if you eat it, you're taking it, whether you like it or not, you can bring back home all the things that are full. As long as you have it with you, that's all that counts. If you get hungry, I'll use it. If not, just leave it there. And everywhere I go, I make sure that there's food. I'm not talking about like a park for like 30 minutes. I'll take water, I'll make sure they're fed, and then I'll go. But like if we're going on a trip for like a day, if we're going to another state, like we're not gonna eat out. I want to make sure that the kids have what they like and I pack up from tatsubanum, like everything. Like I'll even bring my pizza maker and my urn for noodle soups and instant stuff. Maybe I'm crazy. I'm happy with that. Like, I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Well, but also it sounds like you don't want the kids to experience that feeling of hunger, or it also sounds like yeah, it sounds also like it's a dissatisfaction. You know, it's like we can eat something and be dissatisfied. There's that hedonistic part of eating, which is like social connection and pleasure. That's a big part of food. We need to enjoy our food.
SPEAKER_01You know what else it is now that I'm talking to you? I'm a teacher, so I see a lot that goes on inside the classroom. And there are parents who are very like, let's say, health-oriented, and they only send their kids with healthy snacks, and their kids end up being the ones that stand out, and their kids are very picky, and the kids beg for big TV, and we have to follow photocall, right? And I am just dying for that kid. I just find myself reliving that you can have like, and food is a very sensitive thing, very sensitive. And like, yes, I was chubby when I was younger, so I wasn't so comfortable on my skin, and I stretched out, I got taller. But I see it as a parent and I see it as a teacher, and I'm like, why can't you just send your kid? Like, if you would only see the effect it has on that child's friendships in the classroom, her social standing, like it just bothers me.
SPEAKER_00A sense of belonging, it sounds like that's a big thing that you notice in the classroom.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Like something that just popped into my head was my great uncle came from a different country to America and he made cookies for us. So I brought them to school as like a kid. And this girl that I gave it to, we were sharing, she was totally enjoying it. And then another girl I gave it to, the minute she put it in her mouth, she spit it out. I was so embarrassed. Like, excuse you. I don't think why just came to me, but that's a memory that life out. Like, not that that was so popular, but I tried to be part of everything, but I still like it's a lot of insecurity around food, I feel like.
SPEAKER_00And I feel like if my if my fridge is full, like I'm okay, but I'm not okay. I'm so sorry that that girl did that to you because what a shaming thing to do versus just being polite and grateful that you were sharing. Food is so tricky because it's so personal, and for many of us, it's also very comforting. It's the the smells of our family. I find food to be one of the most instantly comforting things that you can have. Tell me a little bit about your journey with organization.
SPEAKER_01I've been reading organizing things for years, and I have a natural inner organizing thing in myself. Like whenever I'm in the classroom, if I have that small corner where I have papers, I use bins, I make copies, whatever I can do that. I love organizing, but when it comes to my food, when it comes to my clothing, when it comes to just the table, the kitchen, the counter, like it just has to be everywhere for it to make noise to say, like, I'm here, let your safe. But hello, you're driving me crazy at the same time.
SPEAKER_00Sometimes I think it takes it getting that loud for us to sometimes turn the attention and pay attention to ourselves. I wonder if some of the noise of the fridge and some of the noise of the kitchen and even the clothes is trying to bring your focus and your love back to yourself. That's so interesting.
SPEAKER_01You're right. I guess that it's just screaming at me because I'm not listening to it as much as I need to. There was just two days ago, like I did not eat until either three o'clock or four o'clock. I'm like, but why does that have to happen? Because you could do it. You could do it, Micah. You could do it. Make sure everything is available, everything has to be together. Like, you can wait, this is more important. But then I'm telling myself, like, you're not as important, which is the message I'm getting across. And me telling my kids, like, I'm eating right now, just recently started. Like, I would sign papers in the middle of me eating, I would make plenty phone calls in the middle of me eating, but then I'm like, what are you doing? Where's your self-respect?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00And it's nervous system regulation. I think the reason why a lot of people don't feel hunger is because we're in this fight or flight mode. Probably from the minute you wake up until the minute you go to bed, you are on. You're just going, going, going. So your adrenaline is pumping constantly. Your body's probably not giving you hunger cues because of the level of stress that you're experiencing day to day in your life. And then, yes, there's the level of feeling like you have to abandon yourself to take care of everyone else because they can't take care of themselves the way you can. And so you're consciously pushing your needs aside. Yeah, I I hear that. I hear that. And um, I don't like it. Same, same. I know. Now, the whole time we've been working together, Micah has also been tending to her five kids. At the beginning of our call, she told me that they knew not to interrupt unless they really needed something. But of course, with five kids, things are gonna come up. And I've been watching her move between answering my questions, organizing the fridge, and taking care of her kids. And the thing that really strikes me is how patient and loving she is with everyone. I wish you were able to see what I'm seeing because it's really beautiful. And my hope for Micah is that she can start offering herself some of that same love and attention that she gives to everyone else.
SPEAKER_01My house is screaming for me. I have to stop being a martyr.
SPEAKER_00To pay attention to yourself and love yourself. What I love about this whole journey of organizing, being a catalyst for self-development and exploration is most of the time when someone meets with me, they're already on the right path. It's not like you meet with me and then suddenly, now we got you on the path. You are already doing it, and this is part of your path evolution. This space is you loving yourself. And that's such a big journey. You loving yourself by feeding yourself, you're loving yourself by preparing food so that it's easy for you day to day. You loving yourself so that your children are taken care of, and they always feel that fullness that you didn't necessarily get to feel early on. It's such a journey of love with this space.
SPEAKER_01Is it a journey of loving myself, or is it a journey of my expression of love to my kids? Because the friction for me too, but isn't it loving myself?
SPEAKER_00Or is it an expression of me loving them? I think you love your kids without effort. What I witness in you is you loving your kids by feeding them is a very natural and obvious thing for you to do. You loving yourself is the thing that's loud. I think this stuff gets loud when it's asking you to love yourself. I agree. Because you're nailing the love in the kids that you've got dialed in. I I hope.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. The fact that it's so messy is because I'm not taking care of myself and it's just making noise for me to take care of myself. Yeah. That's what I'm getting at.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's what I feel and see. Does that resonate for you?
SPEAKER_01It does. It really does because I always tell myself less. I'm like, okay, well, then first, because even when I serve supper, I'm like, I as long as you're happy, I'm happy. Yeah, yeah. You know?
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, and if their needs aren't met, kids naturally know to get loud. They know how to get their needs met, right? And we as women and mothers, we're really good at putting our needs on the back burner to serve other people.
SPEAKER_01Right. Like, how do you do it then? What's the answer? Is there an answer? Maybe there isn't an answer. Like, you're serving everybody. You want us to stand at the people, Matt, can I have this? Can I have that? Go get it. I do tell them, like, mommy, check that down. You need to go get it yourself. Or I'm not getting that every now. You can totally get it yourself because you're very stable.
SPEAKER_00I feel like you're already doing a lot of it. You're so good about finding the solutions that work for you. To be successful in this way of loving ourselves requires small daily action that's going to be very imperfect. There's gonna be days where you don't have the energy for it and you're like, I ate half of the grilled cheese that was left over, and at least I ate today. And then there's gonna be times where you really sit down and you eat. It's about knowing that you have to be a part of the process. Your natural instincts are so spot on, Micah. And I feel like the clutter is an invitation of how can I love myself today?
SPEAKER_01So I'm just ignoring myself, trying to comfort myself, but just moving things around, but really I'm gonna have myself, basically.
SPEAKER_00What would it look like for you to not ignore yourself?
SPEAKER_01Um, what not ignore myself? Eat healthy, because I do really value that, and buy things that I like, like foods that I like, even though they're expensive, which kind of hurts because like I want to help budget and like financially, it's just it's a lot. But every time I start the credit card, there's a sensation in me like stop. But I'm like, no, but I have to, they're going to school tomorrow. So then I tell myself, like, am I being responsible right now or am I being irresponsible? Am I and going that extra mile?
SPEAKER_00I mean, are you buying caviar? No, I'm not.
SPEAKER_01What are we buying already?
SPEAKER_00Total different things. You will spend and do anything to take care of the kids, and then the minute you're taking care of yourself, that's when that guilt comes up. I shouldn't be doing this, I should be right exactly.
SPEAKER_01And there are like, let's say healthy, right? There are like grass-fed cows, and they know they taste so stupid. I'm like, you know what, my god? For 329, you'll survive. You'll have to have it. But I'm like, but then I'm like, I am numbing that feeling, and then I guess it comes out elsewhere. Like, there were times like I just wouldn't buy things, and I'm like, I'm hurting myself. I literally am hurting myself. So I started, but I have the seesaw of yes, no, yes, no. There's no like consistent you are worthy and valuable of that 329, whether it's four times a week or three times a week. Like it's just yogurt and it won't break the bank, but maybe it will.
SPEAKER_00I'm sorry, my friend. You grew and gave birth to five children. You are working while being a mom to five children. You are an incredible human. You deserve the yogurt.
SPEAKER_01Like so does everybody else, but somehow they're managing.
SPEAKER_00No, we still have to take care of ourselves. You eating that yogurt might mean that you have eaten rather than waiting until three o'clock.
SPEAKER_01But why, when I'm getting that yogurt, do I feel guilty at the same moment that I bought that dumb yogurt? Why do I feel guilty? And it's just not satisfying because you're being so irresponsible. Like, why can't you deal with the 59 cent one versus the 329 one?
SPEAKER_00Whose voice is that? Mine. Well, did you get it from someone else? Did you ever hear it from like a grandparent or a parent or a teacher?
SPEAKER_01I have to be like sit down and think, but I guess it's that voice of just like it will always be a problem if you spend too much. My kids wanted sushi yesterday. I love sushi and I wanted my kids to eat. And it happens to me yesterday was a day I didn't eat until like four o'clock. So we did a master shopping right before school and I bought three sushi for everybody and I eat deli. But I'm like, I would love some sushi, but no, it's too expensive. I'll eat deli instead.
SPEAKER_00I think most moms would eat cardboard box to make sure their kids could eat a real meal. And I think it's so interesting because our stuff speaks, like our clutter is talking to us. The fact that it can be true that you are choosing to take the initiative of sacrificing your most enjoyable, satisfying choice to make sure that the kids have what they need. Right. And also it's so clear that there is part of you that also is desperately crying to be heard and seen. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's it's crazy when like I came up pressure stuff and you said that clutter speaks. I'm really blown away, honestly. And I'm like, wow, like if this is actually not gonna haunt me forever. This actually serves a purpose. It was a coolest turn of events because it was so like relieving and calming to know that like you're not gonna like die in doom, you know, your way out.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, and the fact that if the clutter is getting loud, it's because it's trying to tell us something and we get to stop and listen. And I think really doing life to the fullest is holding space for all of it. It's holding space for wanting our needs to be met in a really delicious way and knowing that sometimes our needs can't get met. It's knowing that you love to organize, you're very good at it. It's very clear that this is a skill that you possess. And there's going to be absolutely times in your life where that's not a priority because you're putting out 20 other fires. Right. While we've been having this conversation, Mike has been busy cleaning out the fridge. And now that everything's out, cleaned, and categorized, we're ready to start putting it all back together. Okay, so I'm putting back the drawers now. Perfect. I want to see it all clean because I'm sure it looks so pretty. Oh, really? Okay, cool. Oh, yeah. This is fun. I know, right? It's amazing what you can get done in two hours. Yeah. Okay. You want to see the end product? I do want to see the end product. Oh, but we have to get the stuff out the door. Oh, for you? Yes, ma'am. Okay, fine.
SPEAKER_01I know. I'm sorry. No, you're helping. So here is the latest dated version. Oh, it looks beautiful.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I did it all by myself. You did so good. Gorgeous. Oh my god. It looks like a brand new fridge. Oh, yeah. Things happen. Okay, so there are these container sturbins, and they're 16 inches deep by eight inches wide and five inches high. These are great because, like, for example, you could have all deli in one, and you could have all veggies in another, and you could have all dairy in another. And so everything could be separated and it will take up the depth of the fridge. Like that actually is the perfect size for what you need. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. So because what'll happen is if you don't have containers for things, normally what I tell people to do if they're going to have leftovers is I'll designate an entire shelf for leftovers. Like all leftovers go here. And then the other thing that I'll do is I'll say, if you can have some kind of tape, like painter's tape or, you know, some sort of temporary, not super sticky tape, and a Sharpie in there. So you can write on there the date that you made it, what it is, so that you can keep up with it. But I like to have one shelf just for leftovers. So you don't even have to question if someone comes in, your hands are full, it just goes there. But I feel like having those subcategories for the produce, for the pizza, like the things that you do a lot, I'd have those set up as pre-setup categories. Having a pizza section, if that's something that you all do all the time. The meat that needs to be cooked all together, that kind of thing. And you don't need to fill every inch of the fridge, but it's going to make such a difference. Because what happens is when you go to cook, you pull that whole box out, you grab what you need, you put it back in there. Oh, wow. That is a game changer, actually. Right? It's such a big deal. Because you just have to wash that box. Your fridge isn't getting dirty. Things aren't falling behind because it's taking up every square inch. And so you can't have things get lost because they're in that drawer that gets pulled out. It's like it's giving yourself like six more drawers, essentially. We want to just have everything together. And then I am absolutely fanatical about getting labels on all four sides, making sure that it's like dairy or deli or whatever it is, so that it's so obvious for the whole family what's in there.
SPEAKER_01Right. By the way, speaking of when I read your book, I did the four side labels. And for my laundry system, I did like black, black, black, white, white, white, color, color. And it's so, so much easier. So thank you.
SPEAKER_00Oh, thank you. That makes me so happy. Well, I just noticed there's so many people who will put things away in a different orientation than they're used to seeing it. And I'm like, Correct. No, healthier so neat.
SPEAKER_01I'm like, this says black all the way in that corner. Don't you see? But then I'm like, wait a minute. Let me tell over, all over. Totally. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I'm so glad that makes me so happy. Yes, you change lives. You really do. Oh, thank you, Micah. That makes me so happy.
SPEAKER_01For sure, for sure. Yeah. So I totally do have these bins. I actually got a bunch of them. So I could totally make it work with it. Oh, I love it.
SPEAKER_00I'm so glad you have them. How perfect is that? Right? Yeah. What's funny is every solution is hidden in the clutter. Most people have the organizing bins that they need already at the house, which is amazing. I never have come across someone who already had the pantry bins ready to go for the fridge. That makes me so happy. Yeah, I am unique. You are. I'm not surprised though. Now that I've met you, I'm like, oh yeah, you've got it together. Like, how do you manage? I'm just like the train conductor. Totally. Totally. You can manage all the pieces. Yeah, exactly. Okay, so here we go. All right. Show me. So what do we do now? Let's do the things that are the most obvious. Let's do leftovers, maybe. Let's oh yeah, drink. So we've got milk and then we've got drinks. Like that's all kind of big stuff that wouldn't be contained. Right. Okay. So milk and drink to put on is there an order for this? Like how I think of the fridge like you have six different sections, right? So we've got three shelves cut in half. So let's say maybe drinks go second level to the right hand side. Does that feel like the right place? Yeah, it's more reachable for sure. And then I have a bunch of dips. The dips so now Micah's starting to put everything back in the fridge, figuring out where she wants each category to live.
SPEAKER_01I love this. It's such a like like you know, like when you're like so hot and then you just jump into the water, it's just a cool feeling. It's exactly how I feel right now. Like, so I don't know. And I didn't even finish. I'm just starting. I love it. Yeah, you are ready for this. Okay, so I put the deli in one bin. Oh, per hot dogs, and I have dips. Oh, I love it.
SPEAKER_00Do you have painter's tape? Painter's tape? No, but I have those like mini labels. Okay, and are they pretty visible? I think so. I have to write on it. Okay. I'm gonna have you even label the drawers for the produce. Like when you really produce in oh, yeah. Like if you do fruit in one, vegetables in another, just that mindfulness of what's where. It's it's interesting how when we don't have labels, our brain kind of goes a little fuzzy, you know. Whereas if there's a label, even if we know what's on there, it just it helps support us in the busy moments. Right. I love labels. I actually do love labels. Once you have the system and it's labeled, it's hard to let things fall out of the system.
SPEAKER_01I'm curious if this will last too, God willing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And what will make it last is you continuing to update the system. When you come in and someone has put the dip on the leftover shelf, you have just move it into the dip box and you remind people, hey, don't forget, we have categories for things. Make sure you put it away. And it's so helpful because especially with having kids, the kids understanding that there's a home and that they're an active participant in the system is so healthy for them. So when they move into their own homes, they actually have this be a part of how they view the world and how they interact with it. Okay, cool. So one of the things that I like to label, and this sounds strange, but when we pick our leftovers section, label the wall of the fridge that's the leftovers section. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah, I know. Someone's gonna come and open your fridge and be like, this is extra. And you'll say, Yeah, and it works.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. If there's one thing I accomplished in this in this year, and that's like tackling my fridge, I am I'm I'm good. Yeah, totally. Okay, so now up to leftovers and I'm doing it on both sides of the wall or just one.
SPEAKER_00It's up to you. Whatever feels right. Like when you open the fridge, like what where does your eye go? To the left side, but I want it everywhere. Yeah, put it everywhere. Because we can always take it off. I mean, it's not gonna hurt. And you know, the thing is is again, the systems will evolve as you evolve and as the family evolves. So if that shelf goes from leftovers into dairy, then you change the labels, right? We want this to be.
SPEAKER_01Meaning you're you're changing with it, basically.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yeah. And it's changing with you, is really what it is, right? Our systems change before we name it because our lives are evolving, and then we sometimes forget to capture it in the system. And in the best scenario, our systems represent our lives. How's it feeling as you're putting everything in there? How's it feeling? It's feeling actually I'm I'm actually nervous. Yeah, tell me about that. Yeah, because we're kind of in that in-between stage, right?
SPEAKER_01Because it's getting full again, and I'm like, um, I know it's labeled and it looks really nice right now, but I'm being like put in like a box and I feel like I'm very confined. You know what I'm saying? And like I don't have so much boogie room versus like just space.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01So that's my feeling of like I'm feeling a little bit anxious, to be honest, weirdly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And trying to just confine stuff, and it feels very restrictive.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. What are you worried that you're not gonna have space for? The extras. Does that go in this fridge or does it go downstairs? Good question.
SPEAKER_01Um, maybe I'm putting things that go in this fridge that are not supposed to go in this fridge because I'm supposed to put it downstairs. So I could put the dips downstairs, right?
SPEAKER_00I don't need dips here all week long if we only use them on the weekend. So it's in that. Oh, but see, oh, but look at that. Do you feel that panic rising when you say that? I do because I'm like, what if I do want one during the week? Yeah, you might want some during the week. So the dips box, you could put eight of the dips downstairs into the other fridge and leave one and have that box become snacks and then right opening it. Like all or nothing. I hate that. So again, the clutter's talking. And in this case, the organized stuff is talking. So we're catching the voice before it becomes clutter, we're catching it before it screams at us. We're hearing that the system is not quite right yet, that already you're being told, hey, something needs to be adjusted. So maybe the dips become a snack section, or what could that box turn into that would serve you better? Good question. Um, serve me better. Dairy, maybe? Dairy. Okay, I like that. And would dips be part of dairy? Um, yeah. Okay. So then that would need its own category. So a different category. So it seems like we need a dairy category, and we know we're probably gonna need to get another couple boxes, right? Right, right. Yeah, let's see. Dairy. I'm gonna do this dairy. Okay. And for now, you can use the smaller boxes to hold those other categories. I mean, I don't care if you use shipping boxes just to hold that space.
SPEAKER_01So then I'll make one as snacks for the hoes, let's say. Great. I hear another voice saying, like, okay, here, you did all this organizing. What if you mess up? Like, what if you can't control it, even though it's it's already ready for you, but like who said you're capable of managing it, right? Yeah, like out, excuse you.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. How dare you speak to me that way? No one approved that. Yeah, it's weird. Yeah, it's interesting to hear the voices that come up, isn't it? Yeah, is there a is there a counter voice that we could find instead? Like, what's the truth? If that's what the voice is saying, what do we know to be true? What do we know to be true?
SPEAKER_01I mean, how many people? I don't know. This is scary. How many people have gone through what you have gone through and are where you are today that you can't manage a dump fridge?
SPEAKER_00Like, yeah, yeah, the bully is still present, right? Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh. Well, and who decides what success looks like? Good point. Having a full fridge is successful, right? So if you had a loving voice that was going to offer you something that that bully voice isn't, what is another truth that the kind voice could say? Another truth the kind voice can say um to counteract the mean things that the other's saying.
SPEAKER_01Um, you should give yourself more credit than you do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for sure. Something like that. I'll add to the voices in your head. So if you get more meat or you get more dairy and it overflows the system you have, what are you gonna do?
SPEAKER_01Um, I'll either put it downstairs or freeze it, right? Yeah, and that'll be what it'll be. It doesn't have to all go there. So how hard could that be already? Like, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And if you didn't have time to do that and you just shoved it in there and the box that it was kept in was a little bit over full, is that okay? That's okay, right? We're all human. Yep, totally. And if maybe two yogurts make it onto the top leftover shelf and not into the dairy shelf, is that okay? Yeah, that's okay. No one's perfect. Totally, totally. Yeah, you were allowed to evolve it, you're allowed to try new things, you're allowed to not have it perfect. I look for 70 to 80 percent accuracy in anything. That means I only need you actually doing it right 80% of the time. I don't need it perfect 100% of the time. That's not feasible for most people. The tricky thing with the bully is the bully starts talking and we completely forget our actions, right? We forget that we have a fridge downstairs because we're too busy feeling like we've been beat up by someone. The person that's supposed to love us the most is now beating us up. But the truth is, if I said to you, I have too much yogurt, then we'll fit in the box, you knew exactly what to do. Right, right. That's true. You know all the answers. Right. And like there's challenges you won't expect that are gonna come up that are gonna challenge the system. And that's an invitation to evolve the system, not to beat yourself up because clutter is not a moral failing, it's a system that needs to be updated.
SPEAKER_01Nerves on how they're gonna snag it on the change.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, totally. Well, because the yogurts and yeah, and the the dip. Right. Cool.
SPEAKER_01Okay, what do you think? Here we go. I'm so excited.
SPEAKER_00I have an empty shop, actually. It looks amazing.
unknownWhat?
SPEAKER_00Okay, give me a tour, give me a full tour of the buttons.
SPEAKER_01So here is the snacks, right?
SPEAKER_00Perfect. This is the dairy section, and then this is the leftover, right? So I wonder if we should reverse the leftovers and put the leftovers at the top and the snacks at the bottom. Oh, interesting. Because there's probably gonna be more leftovers regularly. Oh, good point. I hear you. Yeah, because that could also be your prepped food section, also, if you do any food prep for yourself.
SPEAKER_01Oh, nice. I like that. I totally like that. Yeah, it's funny because like when I do try to like declutter and there is like clean space, I'm like, this is too quiet. I need that noise. It's more comforting to have just noise, but it's such a like I I like the quiet, but I'm like, no, I'm not yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, and you know what I think is really interesting is that there's a broken shelf on your door, and so there will be Oh my gosh, right? Don't go there. So, like, there's always that's like a mix where you like the noise, but you like the quiet, and there's like a way where it's being represented in that space by not having something.
SPEAKER_01That's so crazy. What a connection, my gosh, right?
SPEAKER_00And but you need both, and I think that's the confusing part for most of us is that we feel like we should be one way. And the truth is we are very complex, dynamic people that have a lot of layers. Wow, that was wild. It's interesting how getting organized can bring up some pretty complicated feelings. Micah wanted a calmer fridge, but now that she's getting one, she's also noticing some anxiety. And I love that she's able to name what she's feeling as we go along.
SPEAKER_01So it's somewhat full and like a little empty, which is good. It's not too much, it's not too little, it's not screaming, it's just calm right now.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, which is nice. And it's gonna ebb and flow, right? It's gonna have calm moments that it might activate that anxiety, and then it's gonna have busy moments that activates a different kind of anxiety. What are the things that you need to do after our session today? Like, what are the things that would be helpful? We know purchasing a few of those bins because I think having a few more containers will be helpful. Is there any other activities that you think will help you feel like that fridge is completed?
SPEAKER_01I think that having some like mom-friendly snacks in there.
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm. So the yogurt is mom-friendly. What else is mom friendly? Like cut up vegetables, cut up fruit. That's pretty much it. So I think you need a mom box. Oh a mom box. Cute. I like that. I think that's good. Because what we're doing is we're making space for you. We're making space for you to have your needs met, which is really important. So one of the things that might come up for you is when you go to buy the boxes for the pantry, you might be like, it's not worth the money. I don't think I should right now. I'll wait. Think of it as investing in not wasting food in the future. Uh-huh. The part of you that's going to be like, I shouldn't. But when you hear that voice, think about how much food you're not going to waste in the future by having everything separated. And don't be afraid to get even more niche down with the categories. You might have two different containers of condiments, or you might have kids snacks and parent snacks, or whatever it is, right? You might have family snacks. Keep creating systems until it feels right and strong and functional. And if you need a little space to feel delinquent, like if you're like, I need a space that is unhinged and is just all mine, create a chaos corner in the fridge where you're allowed to be chaotic. Like you're allowed to have that. Yeah. So tell me, how are you feeling about what we did today?
SPEAKER_01I feel like I'm able to get control and that it's overwhelming, but like it's gonna be overwhelming at times, at certain times more than others, but with the labels and like the structure within the chaos, I find that it helps. Like someone's holding my hand, like with the labels, someone's holding my hands. And the mom box idea, like I wow.
SPEAKER_00Like whenever I open up the fridge as a gift for me waiting inside, like I love it. If you were going to give advice to someone who is struggling with the same thing that you have been struggling with, what advice would you give them?
SPEAKER_01What advice would I give them as many times as I gave up? I always tell myself, like, how could you give up? Like reaching so far and falling back down, like you cannot just give up, even though you've tried 57,000 times. And at the end of the day, if you're still breathing, there is hope. So just open that one more door and it could be your, you know, it could be your savior. So thank you. I I think I just established that. Keep on pushing.
SPEAKER_00When we started, Micah's fridge was doing two jobs at once. A full fridge helped her feel safe. It meant her family had enough. But it was also so full that it had become overwhelming. And somewhere in all of that food for everyone else, Micah had gotten left out. By the end of our session, we hadn't just made space in the refrigerator. We'd made space for Micah to care for herself as well. And I love that the answer wasn't some huge dramatic change. It was a mom box, a place in the fridge with food just for her, a little reminder every time she opens the door that she gets to be one of the people that she takes care of. Micah spent so much of this session making sure everyone else had enough. Now there's a little space that says you get to have enough too. And maybe that's what Micah is making space for. Room to nurture herself. Thank you so much for spending time with us today. Every organizing session tells a different story, but they all leave us with one question. What are you making space for? As you move through your day, I hope you'll carry that question with you. Because getting organized isn't about creating a perfect home. It's about creating more room for the life you want to live. And if you're ready to start making space in your own life, I'd love to help. You can download a free copy of my book, Why the F Am I Still Not Organized, at starhanson.com forward slash podcast, where you'll also find resources, classes, and ways we can work together. Until next time, keep making space for what matters most.
