SPEAKER_01 0:00

This is the part where I fail, and probably for my entire life, I'll end up just putting it all into a box again and shoving it somewhere. And I don't want to do that anymore.

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Welcome to What Are You Making Space For? I'm Star Hansen, certified professional organizer, trauma-informed coach, and clutter whisperer. For more than 20 years, I've seen firsthand that getting organized is almost never about the stop. Clutter's just the start. Every space tells a story. And behind every pile of clutter, you'll find life transitions, grief, trauma, perfectionism, relationships, dreams we've outgrown, and sometimes the dreams we're just beginning to imagine. On this podcast, we'll step inside real organizing sessions to explore what our belongings are trying to tell us, why we get stuck, and what we're ready to make space for next. These episodes come directly from virtual organizing sessions with people who have generously invited us into their organizing journey by agreeing to share their stories on this podcast. Whether you're hoping to clear a closet, understand yourself a little bit better, or simply feel less alone, I'm glad you're here. Let's find out what we're making space for today. You know that stuff that's left at the very end of organizing? You've made huge progress, 99% of the space is done, and then there is this random collection of stuff that you have no idea what to do with. It has no obvious home, you're not sure whether you should keep it, there might be decisions or feelings attached to it, so you shuffle it around, stick it in a bag, move it to another room, and the project never quite feels finished. That's the stuff we're tackling today, that last 1%. And we're going to do it with Sarah, who's part of my Chaos to Com community. After making amazing progress on what she affectionately calls her closet of shame, she was left with exactly this kind of pile. So today we're going to work through it together and show you how to finally deal with that last little bit of stuff that you don't know what to do with.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

So tell us about this closet for you. So that closet is this ginormous closet in the hallway of my house. And when we moved in there, we moved into this house, we moved in in 2010. I just stuffed stuff in there. There were two bins in there that I just, I think I literally just transported from my old house and stuck in there. And they stayed in there. Moving into this home, I had one child at that point. And maybe six months, eight months after we moved into this home, I got pregnant with my second child. So toddler, second child. Anyone who's a mom knows that that's just like a cluster of a time frame anyway, with a toddler and being pregnant and then having a new baby. But then you top onto that uh challenging marriage slash going into a divorce. And so for I'd say 2010 to 2015, I just kept stuffing stuff in there. Stuff, stuff, stuff that I wanted to keep safe for my kids, stuff that was maybe, you know, even random presents. One shelf was like linen stuff, the bottom shelf was bathroom stuff. Moving on up, I my grandmother passed away right in that time frame, 2014. And so even if you look on the top, there is like my grandmother's afghan that I took from her home. Some games were in there, candles. It just like I stuffed it all as much as I could possibly stuff in there. And that is where stuff lived. I could barely get out the linens, but you know, it sort of functioned that way. And um, toilet trees sort of functioned that way. But little did I know when I attacked that closet, I think in June, maybe May, June, somewhere in there, I'd be still sitting here in October with remnant piles, which honestly just completely pissed me off all this time. But at the same time, like life goes on, you know. I have children, I, you know, there's the day-to-day of everything. Um, you know, just kind of took over. And as I told Star in our last membership call, I was gonna move on to the garage because that's another place that has just, you know, piles of stuff. And I was like, no, stop. There's still these couple of bins that are of any place sitting in my flipping living room. And I was like, I want the living room cleaned out, like this is ridiculous. So then I I deconstructed everything last Saturday, and that's usually when my kind of window of free time lately. Um, and then it sat there. And then this past Tuesday I said, Star, I have all these piles. And Star said, Oh, let's can you leave them there a couple more days and we'll do it together. And so this has been my face for the last five days.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

And it's like to get help is nice, but it's also kind of terrifying, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Right, because I look at the piles now, they're on the floor, and I'm just like, oh my god, oh my god. Because this is the part where I fail, and I'll probably for my entire life, I'll end up just putting it all into a box again and shoving it somewhere. And then when do I do that? You know, and I don't want to do that anymore. But like, literally, I'm not kidding, it makes me like emotional. I'm like, oh god.

unknown 5:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

This last one percent of stuff is a really common challenge for many people when they're getting organized. And the best I can do for Sarah is to help her figure out where her blocks are in dealing with each of these small minuscule items. So what I asked her to do before we met was for her to take everything out of the bag that they were all stored in and separate them into high-level categories. That way, when we jumped on our call, we could just dive straight in to figuring out the homes for these and where the blocks are rather than having to take the time to actually get everything out and sort it into categories. So Sarah went ahead and sorted it for us. And we're now gonna take a look at the categories. What do you see when you see this?

SPEAKER_01 5:57

What do you feel and what do you like makes me so anxious? Like makes me want to scream, and I'm like just overwhelmed with all like the stupid little bits that I feel like I'm usually pretty good at categorizing like the really easy cat. But these little bits, you know, there's like memorabilia. There's like I made a I did categorize it, but it's like a stack of gift cards, which are they good gift cards? Are they bad gift cards? I don't know. So it's a stack of cards, and then like I have three different bins of like shells and rocks. Like, I think I wanted the shells and rocks. What am I gonna do with the shells and rocks? Like I thought, oh, I could put them in like a shell and rock garden in the backyard, but have I done that? No, I don't know. They're just sitting there in bins, they have been for four months.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

I mean, it makes sense that it's like it triggers all those feelings. It's not about the stuff, it's about what's wrong with me that I didn't create that garden? Why did I even take these? Now I'm giving myself more issues to deal with. The beating up process starts and is so strong, right? It's like, ugh, like I can't believe I did this and the heaviness and the weight. And then it feels like it's like it's always gonna be this way. And it's like, no, it doesn't have to be, right? It's just these skills are never taught. You were literally never taught how to organize, probably first of all. Like most people were not taught how to get organized. And if you were, you were like, you know, blessed under a magical moon that night. A magical star hands and tree. A magical star, exactly exactly. Even if you are good at organizing, it may not feel good to organize this kind of stuff. This is a special kind of torture, right? This is unique because it's hodgepodge and drugs. And what it asks is when we're dealing with big stuff like linens, right? Linens are keep or get rid of, keep or get rid of. And if you keep them, you fold them and you put them in the linen section. Towels, keep, get rid of, toiletries, keep, get rid of, put them in the toiletry zone. This stuff, what it's begging of you is the question of like, do you have a system for me? Am I a bigger project? And the answer almost always is yes. There's either an emotional attachment to letting it go, or it requires a bit more focus and attention than you actually want to give it right now. So that's really where it comes from. There's like some broad categories that I see here. I see some books, I see some cards, I see some gift cards, I see some receipts, I see a pile of I'm not sure what, but I trust that there's an idea in there, right? I see some paperwork and there's some broad categories here. So that's the first thing we do is we categorize and then we go in and we evaluate each one one at a time. We can't do it all at once. We pick one. And my friend, how do we choose the first thing we work on? Easiest. Yes, the easiest. We're looking for a good pop-out. Give me the easy one, right? I want to eliminate anything easy. I want to eliminate any visual clutter that is possible, anything that we can handle quickly and easy and get out of there so that we can get to that pile of chaos. So when you're looking around at this space, what is the easiest thing here? What are the easy things you can do something about right now?

SPEAKER_01 8:50

I mean, maybe put the gift cards in like a Ziploc bag all together.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Yeah, and where would you put them? I don't know. Star Hands. Oh, that's where I'm here. So with gift cards, you want to pick somewhere that you would remember to use them. So, like I used to like put them in my glove box. Like I just that was actually as you were just talking, I was like, put them in the car. Smarty pants, yeah, because you need them when you're out. You don't need them when you're home. And if you are shopping from home and you need one, you go and grab it. So go ahead and do that now. Okay. Choosing the easiest thing first is just such a great strategy for handling this. And when you're ready to walk away, you need to stop and pause yourself and say, What can I do something about? I can do something about the gift cards. That thing goes here, right? Look for the thing you can do something about. That's always your in because there is something. And you'll see after this, there will be something else. And the more that you find something, the more that your confidence builds and you feel stronger about it. So it's really important to keep looking for like what can I do something about? Look at that! Look at that. All done. Beautiful. So okay, so that's the first easiest. So what is the next easiest?

SPEAKER_01 10:00

I did separate all buttons and extra thread that comes with, like, you know, maybe your extra buttons have that pile.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

Bag them up. Bag them up. Do they have an existing home in the house somewhere? They do not. Do you have a sewing area or a like a clothing area? So here's the question you want to ask yourself when you have something that doesn't have a home. You want to say, where is the first place I would look for this? Like if you were like, I know I have a button. Where is the first place your brain says the button would be here? Yeah, that makes sense to me. Yep. Okay. Just remember, there's no wrong. Where is the first place you would look? And that's where it lives. Okay. So what I want you to do is I want you to spend the next five minutes. We're gonna time you. Okay. I'm gonna time you for five minutes, and I want you to spend the next five minutes putting anything away that is easy to put away. Anything that has a home, put that stuff away. Okay. So that's literally for five minutes, all you're gonna do. Okay. You might notice that when I'm working with someone, I almost always start by asking them if there is something easy that they know where it goes to just put away quickly. And I do that for a few reasons. I do that because doing something easy gives you that state of flow. And the other thing that it does, and this is super important, is that it clears the visual clutter of things that are not distressing, that are not challenging. So if we can get those things out quickly, you get that confidence win, but then you also eliminate that visual clutter that makes the project feel even more overwhelming than it is. You'll also notice that I set a specific time with Sarah to work on this. I said five minutes. Now I'm going to give her longer than five minutes to do this. What the five minutes does is it allows a focal point for her to just start. If I said, go ahead and put everything away that's easy, that's an endless project. No one wants to do that project. But if I say, hey, can you just put easy stuff away for five minutes? And at the end of five minutes, if I notice that she's in a state of flow, I'm going to keep going because that's what I want. And when someone is in that state of flow, they can get so much more done. So I set the timer, I watch it. If she was frustrated and overwhelmed and it wasn't flowing for her, I'd stop after five minutes. But because this five-minute segment really energized her, I let her keep going until she was finished putting away things that she knew where they belonged. Awesome. So how long do you think that took you? Um like 11 minutes. Yeah, around there, like 13, 13 minutes. Yeah. About a little bit longer, but you did it. Like you were in it and you kept going. And how hard did that feel?

SPEAKER_01 12:43

Um, I mean, not hard, but you know what I'm realizing? I think I think a big problem is like, you know, putting stuff near where I think it should go. But I think I'm realizing I think this this is a big thing, is why I've never had, but I still don't have great systems set up. And I think that's where I'm getting stuck.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

At the end, and like I think I've known that for a while, but I think that's why in every single freaking project I never get to completion. Even though I'm working for like a year, which honestly that makes me like sad. It makes me feel like defeated, like frustrated. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

It makes sense that you're frustrated. It totally makes sense that you're frustrated.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

And you know, like even the living room, like it's like I use this space, obviously, it's our living room, but like I'm I'm just so frustrated.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

Just I don't know. It it does feel defeating to not feel like you have proper places to put it. And it does feel like, well, I'd have to start a whole new project or I haven't finished. And that's why the membership exists, because we can't do our whole home in one week. We can't. So be patient with yourself. You're doing a great job and you're doing big projects that are yielding you free space and openness and clarity with your family. There's going to be the parts that you've done that feel amazing, and then there's going to be the rest of the house that feels like a chaotic mess. And part of it is accepting it. Let it be because that chaos is your tomorrow projects. That chaos is not your today project. So that's why we don't go and start a new project. We put it as close to where you think it might be as possible, even if that means you're mucking it up a little bit more, because it's not done. And I'm more concerned if you were to add clutter to completed areas. And so if you're just adding a bag of buttons to your laundry room, it's not gonna make or break like we were fine until that bag of buttons, you know. But all the things you're feeling make sense. And like you just have to honor that because like it is this hopeless feeling, that like effort feeling where it's like, why bother? Why bother? Like, why would I go through this? It's too minuscule to matter. But this minuscule stuff matters, it really does. It adds up. It's like how we do anything is how we do everything.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

I mean, I think, yeah, I think too. I think you're right. Like having a time limit, that's a really successful action. Like, even this, I'm like, oh my God, it's like I got it. How much can I do? Like, so that was super helpful.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Sarah's finished doing the easy stuff, and now we're going to get into the harder part, the random granular clutter that requires more thought, more decisions, and often more emotional energy. This last 1% can be some of the hardest clutter to deal with. And for some people, especially people with ADHD or other neurodivergent brains, the combination of tiny decisions, unclear categories, and no obvious finish line can feel incredibly uncomfortable. This is where body doubling can be really helpful. Body doubling simply means to do a task while another person is present. They don't have to organize with you, they don't have to be paying close attention to what you're doing. Just having another person there can make it easier to get started, help you to stay focused, build momentum and confidence, and most importantly for this kind of clutter, help you stay with the discomfort long enough to actually finish. That's essentially what I'm doing with Sarah. And you can create this in your own life too. Ask a friend to sit with you while you work, or get on FaceTime or Zoom while you both tackle separate projects. The goal isn't for someone else to solve the clutter for you, it's to make it a little easier to stay present long enough to solve it yourself. And that's going to be especially important for Sarah because some of the things left in this pile aren't just hard to find homes for. They're about to bring up some much bigger topics.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Well, but like, why do I have these?

SPEAKER_00 16:16

I don't know. So if you don't know why you have them and you don't know why you got them, can you go let them go?

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Okay. So my first instinct is yes. But then I have a son who loves all this crap, like making stuff out of it. Like that's his pastime. So what I do just sit in like a pile for him, like like this. I was gonna this is to a broken umbrella. And it was in the goodwill pile. He's like, no, I'm gonna use that. He literally legit does make like these creatures free time.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

So make it like a creative sprockets box for him. So start like a pile. So we're okay to start piling. I wanted you to get some of the stuff out of the way so that you could breathe, and we've done that. So now we're gonna start creating piles. Into the shell pile. What's up with the shell? Do you want to let them go? Send them back to motion.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

I would love to like I have a little pathway along the driveway that's there's like a nothing space, just like a little patch of dirt. Like, like, you know, could be put like the shells that get collected there, or like is that like a project? Like, what do you suggest doing with something like that?

SPEAKER_00 17:14

So it's kind of cool if you have somewhere that you can put them now that you and the kids can add to on a regular basis, right? Like if it's like, oh, we already have this spot of dirt, and like we can just put them there, and then anytime they get one, it can come here and it feels really good and they're part of it immediately, and it doesn't take a project. Like you're a single mom who's raising two kids. When would you realistically do a shell project?

SPEAKER_01 17:36

But I mean, honestly, that would be something that we could totally do in the afternoon to get up out of the house and stop staring at screens.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

So, like, I just like I think that's maybe like I mean, would I make like a like a list of projects that I want to do or like how yeah, you can do a list of projects, you can put those in a craft area, right? So that's kind of like a craft. So you'd put it in like a craft or art zone if you already have that in the house somewhere. And then literally create a little project list of what are fun projects that you would want to do with the kids or schedule or do it this week. Like don't wait for someday. Be like, okay, Monday is someday, someday is Tuesday. Claim a day now so that it's not being put off. It's like we're gonna get started because it's always a good day to get kids' faces away from the screen. I'll go put these by the front door to go out. Excellent.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

I gotta say, start hands in it's already a lot clearer and it feels a lot better, which makes me cry. I don't know why. So breathe into that, like allow it. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

There's something really important happening here. Sarah's starting to see and feel the progress, but we're also about to uncover one of the reasons that this last one percent has been so hard for her. At this stage of organizing, the question isn't always do I want to keep this? Sometimes you know exactly what you want to keep. The problem is that it doesn't have a home. And every one of those little objects that doesn't have a home requires you to make another decision and sometimes create an entirely new system, which is exactly what Sarah is about to realize.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

Yeah. Spare keys, spare keys. Where do you keep spare keys in the house? That's it. So that's what I'm realizing, Sarah I think that's a huge problem. I'm like, there's so many little baby systems that I just don't think of.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

So the junk drawer is a big one for extra keys. The kitchen junk drawer. It can go with office supplies, or it can go with tools, or it can go in the I'm trying to think of all the places that I've seen it live. Like there's a lot of places that it could live.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Okay, that's doory. That's okay. That goes. Uh oh man, another button. It's okay, you got a pile going. There it is. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

At this point, Sarah picks up another one of those random little things that doesn't have an obvious home or an obvious answer. And what seems like one more tiny little decision is about to uncover something so much bigger about why some of this stuff has been so hard for her to let go of. So describe to me a time when you think you would use it. Play out that scenario. That's the thing. I don't know. So make one up. You're creative, make one up.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

If I'm like alone, out, like out, you know, somewhere. Um, or like again, my kids might use it. Oh my god, I'm turning into my mother.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

So noticing that pattern is being generationally handed down is really, really important. You get to choose to stop this here. You really do. And it might be uncomfortable, and you get to choose.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

All right. I because sometimes I do go for runs alone at night. Yep. So what do you take with you when you go for your runs at night? I put uh it's funny because I like I said, I this is something I mean, I know I don't know if I'm gonna do this with everything, but um, I just put like a little uh you know belt on and like my headphones and my phone.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

So can you put it with your belt and then remember to throw it around your neck when you go for a run?

SPEAKER_01 21:07

Okay, yes, I will.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

So I'm gonna pause you for one second. I want you to just breathe for a minute. Just take some nice deep breaths. You're having some big revelations, you're making some really good progress. You're almost to the end. So when you get emotional, when it feels intense, that's when we want to stop and breathe. You having that epiphany of like, wow, I'm handing this over. That's a lot to sit with. That's a lot to just acknowledge. So effing uncomfortable. Like, literally.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Hey, look, I happen to leave tissues here. Oh, look at that. There's there's the clutter is helpful.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

There's a solution always in the clutter. The clutter has the solution. Uh and that's it. It's like shameful that like this stuff isn't easy. It is not easy for anyone. Most people don't find this easy. It's just the truth of it.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

And there's like literally everything in my body. Like, I want to get out of here. Like, I'm sweating.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

Yep. Because every single object is loaded with a feeling, a belief, an assumption. It's loaded. We're not talking about neutral items right now. We're talking about you beating yourself up. Every single thing is a landmine. Of course, you want to run and hide. Like, of course you do. And you're being a badass who's not running and hiding. I know I've no judgment on running and hiding because there's times where that feels like a relief, but you're not. You're choosing to sit with me. You chose to say, Yes, I'll show up for this super uncomfortable session. And you're doing it. And that's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

I don't know. You're frustrated.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

Probably both. My guess is that it's two. There's maybe a part of you that's beating yourself up, and a really tender, sweet part who's happy you're finally paying attention to her. You're confronting generational clutter. You're confronting shame. You're confronting grief. You're confronting uncertainty. And you're riding the wave. And instead of running from it, you're facing it and finding a solution. It makes sense. I put the teachers on the ground.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

I was like, no, they go in the in the bag. It's working. It's working. Thank you, Star. No, I just like yeah, no, what she said. This, I don't know why. I think it was like one of those like trash. Look, I threw something away.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

I'm so proud.

SPEAKER_01 23:28

This is a cup, I think. I know they'll use it, but part of me, like that's where again a struggle. I don't want to keep it.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

But I don't think it so here's the thing if you got rid of everything in your son's pile of fun gadgets and you got rid of your daughter's potential enjoyment of the little cup, I promise you they could use it and they could make it useful, but their life is full without it.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

That's true.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

So you're trying to save the world by finding a good home for these, which could go to your kids, but then you know you're actually giving them a future task because they might use them, but then they're eventually gonna have to get rid of them. So you could stop it and you could just say, No, I'm not doing that. We're gonna move it on.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Oh star. I know that's a tricky one. Okay, I'm gonna circle back to that one. No, gotta stay in while it's hot. Okay, my struggle here. I have had a lot of the stuff that people, I mean, I still dreams, like I've had dreams even this week of people like just taking my things and not honoring them and not honoring like my journey and going through it. So, like part of me is like, I don't, and I I think I'm trying to find the line of of balance with that as a parent, but I don't want anybody to ever do that to them because I have had I have such like wounds about that.

unknown 24:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

There are parts of Sarah's story that I'm choosing to leave private. But what's important to understand here is that there have been times in her life when other people made decisions about her belongings without her consent, including getting rid of things that mattered to her. So for Sarah, this isn't simply a question of whether her kids might want these objects. She's trying to make sure that they never experience the feeling of having someone else decide what matters to them or what they're allowed to keep. And that's where things are getting tangled here. Because these aren't actually her kids' belongings. They're Sarah's belongings that she thinks her kids might be able to use. That's the distinction we're about to work through. It's wrong for someone else to get rid of your stuff. It's absolutely wrong. It's not okay on any level. Something was taken from you that was out of your choice that should have been your choice, but it wasn't. So it makes sense. I want to validate that that is true. You are saying that that's not okay because it happened to you and it's not okay that it happened to you, and it shouldn't happen to anybody. And those don't belong to them. But do you see how the things that you collected are blending with this old wound and it's making the things that you collected hard to let go of because they feel attached and grooved in with the, you know, with this other thing. When the truth is you have some objects that might be useful to your kids mixed with no one should ever have their stuff thrown away, no one should be violated in this way, and you've had them make a baby, and the baby looks like a pile of clutter in front of you, right? And you can choose to keep it, and all you're gonna do is move that baby from room to room, or you can say, This ends here. I have this sense that it's not okay to throw someone else's stuff away. This is my stuff. I'm making the choice that I'm not passing this clutter to my kids. That's the problem, Star. Half of the stuff isn't my stuff in these piles. If it's their stuff, it goes to them. That's it's we have to find autonomy with kids. They have to be able to manage their own stuff. So they get to handle their stuff. You get to handle your stuff. But when you're thinking I have stuff that I could give them that could be useful, you're trying to save the world by cluttering your kids. Right. And that's that's where we're trying to draw the line. And it's not about, I mean, I don't care if those glasses go to your son and that cup goes to your daughter. I'm not affected by this, but it's about the bigger issue, which is the handing down of this, and then they're gonna do it to their kids. So do we want it to stop? Yes. Like I hear and I see in you that you want it to stop, and you can want it to stop and feel uncomfortable stopping it. You can stop it and still be uncomfortable with it. It doesn't have to be exclusive. Like, you don't have to be like, I feel okay. You might not ever feel resolved not passing things over because that belief was given to you and it's blended with that wound. And so you can be uncomfortable and donate it or throw it away wherever it needs to go. And and let me just caveat this: you will get rid of something that you will regret. You're going to get rid of something. Yeah, I know. Yeah. So, so like that's not future evidence. Like, that's not me being a psychic. That's me saying that's inevitable. I got rid of my cap and gown. I still regret that choice. I don't even remember doing it. We really have to mind our mind. You are going to get rid of something that your son in three days is going to come to you and say, Mom, if only I had a stick that was like from that umbrella and I could you, and you're gonna be like, ah, and it will make you want to keep everything else. Let it go, anyways. Let it go anyways. Because in not every case, if you are super crafter and you have this craft room and you have all this room to store all this stuff, that's one thing. But if you're in a limited amount of space and you're battling generational clutter, we're picking the right fight. We're not picking the fight of, oh, we could use that, it's totally useful. We're picking the fight of we want to heal generational clutter. And so I'm choosing that battle over can I repurpose everything I've ever come across? It's a choice that you're making. Okay. Okay. Yeah. But do I let you keep thinking about those objects for your son and daughter, or do we handle those?

SPEAKER_01 28:59

Well, okay, the cup I am gonna keep because I know she like literally, I just bought a new cup almost exactly like this at Spirit Halloween that she wanted to drink out of. So that's why. Okay, I'm keeping the cup. Well, the other thing is like the can you see it on the thing? That mystery pile?

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Okay. I don't know what to do with that yet.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

So we're not leaving this until you decide.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

I want to keep that mystery pile for literally he has a bin of stuff that he uses to craft the stuff, like it's a bin.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

So, how do you know when you've hit your limit of moving things to him in that way? How do you know when you've given him enough?

SPEAKER_01 29:38

That's literally all though.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

There's nothing can we make an agreement though? Can we make an agreement that if that bin gets full, then any new stuff is either one in, one out, or it's gone. Yes. Okay. I'm okay with that. As long as there's limits. There can be the creative box of rockets, but like I want there to be some solid limits so that it doesn't become an infinite. This is useful, you handle it, son. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Um there's another one of these somewhere. Is it a baby booty? Yeah. Yeah, it's a baby booty. Is it a memorabilia baby booty or like a donate baby booty? I think it was one that's something that I used with my kids, but or I don't know. Honestly, I don't know. I don't know if it's a memorabilia or I don't know. So if you don't remember, is it that important to keep? I think it might have been like a one of my somebody made it for my kids. I don't know. That's the problem.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Like what are you saying that you have that other baby booty somewhere?

SPEAKER_01 30:47

I do, I know, I do.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

So, okay, so here's what I do when I'm organizing a house.

unknown 30:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:52

When I'm organizing a house, I create a question mark box, a box that is literally labeled with a giant question mark on it. And anything that is just like that, where you're like, I think I have it, I don't know. Like the random pieces of hardware that you're like, this goes to something. I know I'm gonna regret it the minute I get rid of it. You put it in that question mark box or bag. And then when you're done organizing the whole house, you go through that box and whatever hasn't been used gets thrown away. One box, question mark. One box or bag, put a question mark on it, and then put it either with your organizing supplies or in like a utility area, somewhere that like is like a good safe house that you can find easily.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

Do that right now, though. Get that box now. Okay, do it. A lot of these little things were like things that like sat on my desk or something, create me overhauling my life into mom mode and this house. So, like that's like that's why I think this is like why I left it.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

So, what I'm hearing, what I'm hearing from this is this is like a time capsule of a time that was really good for you. This is a time capsule of a time you really loved that was like really beautiful. And the a little part of you, I don't know about longs for, but just like really romanticizes or really enjoyed. You knew who you were in that chapter of your life. And when you see these things, you remember her and you feel like her, right? There's it's amazing how we can feel like home from looking at an object. Some candies that sat on your mantle remind you of who you are. So it's more than just keeping this stuff. You'll probably look back at it when you're 80 and feel that joy of your 20s. So you're gonna remember those moments, honor it, celebrate it. There was a part of you that thrived in that time that you love that you're trying to go back to in this period, you know? So it's like we don't have to purge that stuff, we just have to know why it's here, honor, celebrate it, and find a way to bring it into the next chapter.

SPEAKER_01 32:42

Okay, this was one of the final things I find. It's a little rock that says I know exactly what to do.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

Yes, you do. More tears. That is a reasonable response to showing up for yourself after years of not being able to. Did you literally just finish?

SPEAKER_01 33:03

Sorry, yeah, one mystery bag, but that was just has a as a memento keepsaking it. And then I'll just put the bag in the Christmas stuff, but it's memento. Yeah, bag in there, but yeah. My mom gave me Ruby Red slippers that in the little note says click three times to go home to the strong, good, loving center of you. Oh mom.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

This was such a beautiful moment. And as much as I wanted Sarah to take in everything she had just accomplished, there was still one really important part of this process left. Because this is exactly where Sarah usually stops. She makes the decisions, does the hard emotional work, and then the last few things get left to deal with later. So before we celebrate being finished, I want to help her actually experience what being finished feels like. So you're not done. I'm not. I want to have you run and put all of that stuff away in the homes that they go to in five minutes or less. Five minutes. Darn it, I thought I was gonna do that later. Nothing gets left for later. There's no, I'll put that in the car tomorrow. I'll put that away later. Nope, right then. It's all part of the session. Okay. That's I think, yeah, I think that's my biggest. Yeah, it's part like you don't do it until it's done. Okay. So I told Sarah five minutes, but it actually took her about 15. And that's completely okay. Because the five minutes isn't a deadline, it's just a starting point. It's a way of saying we are finishing this now and not turning it into another someday project. Because sorting and making decisions is not the end of organizing. Putting everything away and putting it back in its home is part of finishing too. And Sarah was already in the flow. So rather than stopping her because it took longer than expected, she stayed with it until the job was actually done. Look at that sexy blank floor. What? Oh my god, dude.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

Why is that so hard, star? It's hard.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Wow. How do you feel?

SPEAKER_01 35:05

I seriously, like I gave birth and I did give birth to two children. So this really isn't. I don't know. I'm so grateful. I'm a mushy. It's so nice. Like it like hurts to be in your skin, kind of so crazy.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

Like, what is that about style? It's being present with ourselves. It's why checking out is so common because it's so uncomfortable to be present with ourselves, and you were just looking at a 3D version of you. Many, like dozens of 3D versions of you. What are three kind things that you can say to yourself about what you just did?

SPEAKER_01 35:43

I didn't give up, even though all I wanted to do was give up. I persevered. I persevered. Um I deserve to be given to.

SPEAKER_00 35:56

Yes, you do. Um that's the third one.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

I did what I set out to do today. I guess I I don't know. It's funny, I don't know why I still like have a hard time. Like, why is it so hard, Star? Like, why is it so hard to do that? Because I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

It's not about the stuff. It's about you bringing the pieces of your past into the present, you letting things go that don't belong here anymore. Are you moving things forward with you?

SPEAKER_01 36:23

And I think a big takeaway, like, because I've never done that. I mean, just to show you know, I don't think I've ever done that, like gotten past that, you know, those last bits. The fact that I took the time to write down the things that I want to do, I think that was a really successful thing. And also, like the time limit. I mean, obviously, yeah, you do this all the time, but like I don't think I've ever done those things for myself in finishing.

unknown 36:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

You did so beautifully, Sarah. You showed up, you faced the hard stuff, you name the hard stuff. So tonight I want you to do something really loving for yourself. The trash is taken out, the recycling is taken out, everything is put away. It looks beautiful, it's complete. When we end this call, just take five minutes to sit in this. Don't run into anything else. Sit with the joy, sit with the disbelief, sit with the awe, and then go do something to celebrate what you did today, because it is no small feat. At the beginning of the session, Sarah told me that this is the part where she fails. And I think that's what I love most about where we ended up. Sarah didn't fail. She stayed. She stayed through the tiny decisions, the things that didn't have homes, the discomfort, the memories, and some pretty big realizations about what she did and did not want to carry forward in her life. And she learned that finishing doesn't mean that every decision is easy or that you suddenly know what to do with everything. Sometimes finishing means creating a new system. Sometimes it means writing down the project that you're not ready to do yet. Sometimes it means letting go of something even when it feels uncomfortable. And sometimes it simply means putting everything away instead of leaving that last little bit for later. Sarah said she had never gotten past those last little bits before. But this time she did. And I think that's what Sarah was making space for today. Not just a clean living room floor, but the experience of knowing that she can finish. One quick note before we go. What you heard today is an edited version of a much longer organizing session. If you'd like to spend more time with Sarah and see the organizing process in action, there's an extended hour-long video version of this session on YouTube. You'll find the link in the show notes. Thank you so much for spending time with us today. Every organizing session tells a different story, but they all leave us with one question. What are you making space for? As you move through your day, I hope you'll carry that question with you. Because getting organized isn't about creating a perfect home. It's about creating more room for the life you want to live. And if you're ready to start making space in your own life, I'd love to help. You can download a free copy of my book, Why the Am I Still Not Organized, at starhanson.com forward slash podcast, where you'll also find resources, classes, and ways we can work together. Until next time, keep making space for what matters most.